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15 member gangs discussion

IAaronI

IAaronI

Active member
Location
London England
Hi

Firstly I wanted to say that I’ve never posted an open discussion thread so I hope I’ve posted in the right place . If not please do correct me .

I saw today’s update and I thought this change to crim life and the gang culture as whole is quite large. Personally I think this may be a poor decision as existing white listed gangs have a great amount of support through resources such as cutting bench’s and gus ; hence putting such a cap on non established groups may be detrimental to the growth and development of new storylines I think the server desperately needs

Once again I’m no professional and I just wanna hear opinions from both sides for the change :)
 
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Zino_ said:
Cutting non-whitelisted gangs to a 15 man limit is one final kick in the teeth for gangs on the server.
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How come? It's only for non-WL groups, seems like a dynamic introduced to stop 25 people joining an F6 just to go frag out.
 
This is something that definitely has/will hinder groups that are not gangs such as S18. With us being an organisation/working group, we're going to be unable to recruit & grow now until we are whitelisted. Granted, this is something we're actively working towards & gives us yet another incentive to get whitelisted, but until that time comes, our growth in terms of members would need to halt.

I definitely understand the need for something like this to prevent something like Nepp mentioned though.
 
Was talked about before and there was a lot of good points

Changing the gang cap.

Brief Summary: I have noticed since i have came back the decline in the gang/group scene as a whole is very very much dying out, you see less gangs now a days, and if you do see some, you see very few, i think currently in the server like 2 or 3 gangs you will see about from time to time...
www.roleplay.co.uk www.roleplay.co.uk
 
Samuel Shire said:
surely its because as a smaller group you have to prove your RP is good enough to get WL then you get more, opposed to grab 25 and go out to war
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yh I get this point but if we aree being honest a more realer possablity is rather than non whitelisted gangs fighting WL gangs they may just chose to fight other non WL groups. I think this may be the case but for a long time it has been seen that the group who wins the most fights is the 'best group' in the city.

I agree gang RP quality has been on the decline but I think WL gnags need action first and it may have a trickle down effect on non WL groups (I.E sanction WL groups who log in only to frag and reward gangs who provide genuniley good RP)
 
IAaronI said:
but for a long time it has been seen that the group who wins the most fights is the 'best group' in the city.
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Which is how it really shouldn't be to be honest and whitelisted gangs who have provided the roleplay to get whitelisted should have a advantage if came to who is the better gang if it was just down to fights, IMO this change is very good and will encourage more gangs to be created and whitelisted gangs being selective with who they recruit
 
BaldyDerek said:
This is something that definitely has/will hinder groups that are not gangs such as S18. With us being an organisation/working group, we're going to be unable to recruit & grow now until we are whitelisted. Granted, this is something we're actively working towards & gives us yet another incentive to get whitelisted, but until that time comes, our growth in terms of members would need to halt.

I definitely understand the need for something like this to prevent something like Nepp mentioned though.
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Yh it's a hard one maybe if a group who doesn't want to be a gang but just wants to be a Organisation/working group puts in a ticket and asks for more space on F6. Just an idea idk if it's even possible. But saying that u could have gangs lie for more space but S18 are doing great imo so i dont think you would be waiting mush longer for whitelising imo. I think it's a great update only allowing non whitelist gangs 15 in F6 might stop them changing gang every 2 minutes and having an frag mentality.
 
Martle said:
Yh it's a hard one maybe if a group who doesn't want to be a gang but just wants to be a Organisation/working group puts in a ticket and asks for more space on F6. Just an idea idk if it's even possible. But saying that u could have gangs lie for more space but S18 are doing great imo so i dont think you would be waiting mush longer for whitelising imo. I think it's a great update only allowing non whitelist gangs 15 in F6 might stop them changing gang every 2 minutes and having an frag mentality.
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As far as the code is concerned, we can override the limit for any group.

If development / leads decide a group is ready to progress past the 15 it can be done really easily.
 
Mike Polo said:
As far as the code is concerned, we can override the limit for any group.

If development / leads decide a group is ready to progress past the 15 it can be done really easily.
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So one could say we can take this as an introduction of a some what stage system like other servers have ?
 
Samuel Shire said:
surely its because as a smaller group you have to prove your RP is good enough to get WL then you get more, opposed to grab 25 and go out to war
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While I agree with this, hopefully the process to become whitelisted will be faster as well. I know of groups, including my own, going strong for over a year, even 1.5 years atm and not being whitelisted. I think that should be the other end of this change. It does limit non-gang groups like S18 mentioned above here. For gangs however I do agree. But I've said this before and will say it again; where do we draw the line? Who is a gang and who is a group? It's impossible.

I do agree with the core of the change though, but hopefully management also takes other factors into account.
 
Technically with this system is this now not a 15 person group rather than gang 🤔
 
I'm all for decreasing the cap for members in tablet down to 15 or 20 but doing it exclusively to non-whitelisted gangs doesn't make sense to me. The argument that non whitelisted gangs tend to bring worse roleplay and are just created for fragging purposes isn't right to me, i believe a lot of whitelisted gangs need a heads-up when it comes to the quality of their roleplay. I don't know, maybe i'm biased having pretty much only been in non-whitelisted groups for the past year i've been in the city. I just feel like it makes things unfair.
 
norskov23 said:
I'm all for decreasing the cap for members in tablet down to 15 or 20 but doing it exclusively to non-whitelisted gangs doesn't make sense to me. The argument that non whitelisted gangs tend to bring worse roleplay and are just created for fragging purposes isn't right to me, i believe a lot of whitelisted gangs need a heads-up when it comes to the quality of their roleplay. I don't know, maybe i'm biased having pretty much only been in non-whitelisted groups for the past year i've been in the city. I just feel like it makes things unfair.
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I agree with this point to an extent as well. I've said it before; because of rebuilding mentality there are a lot of whitelisted gangs that will recruit anyone, sometimes people that have been on the server for a week. They break rules and clearly show they're not there to RP at all. Whitelisted gangs should be the pinnacle of RP. They're not atm.
 
qaws said:
I've said it before; because of rebuilding mentality there are a lot of whitelisted gangs that will recruit anyone, sometimes people that have been on the server for a week. They break rules and clearly show they're not there to RP at all. Whitelisted gangs should be the pinnacle of RP. They're not atm.
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yh I agree with this 100% when I first joined the server it was somewhat prestigious ; One had to provide fair and decent RP to be considered to join a whitelisted group however as you have said there is a rebuilding culture now. Gangs will go to war and then suffer losses to bans that happen as a result but rather than taking genuine time to restablise they quickly mass recruit to rush into the next war. Honestly this is a major issue that needs to be addressed and I would like to add I have seen non WL groups such as yours provide better RP than WL groups hence why I started this discussion as it does not seem very fair. As you previously stated it would be a somewhat balanced change if whitelisting became somewhat easier however i would also like to add there should be some sort of system of punishment for WL groups to e.g mandatory non fighting periods for gangs
 
IAaronI said:
yh I agree with this 100% when I first joined the server it was somewhat prestigious ; One had to provide fair and decent RP to be considered to join a whitelisted group however as you have said there is a rebuilding culture now. Gangs will go to war and then suffer losses to bans that happen as a result but rather than taking genuine time to restablise they quickly mass recruit to rush into the next war. Honestly this is a major issue that needs to be addressed and I would like to add I have seen non WL groups such as yours provide better RP than WL groups hence why I started this discussion as it does not seem very fair. As you previously stated it would be a somewhat balanced change if whitelisting became somewhat easier however i would also like to add there should be some sort of system of punishment for WL groups to e.g mandatory non fighting periods for gangs
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I believe the reason why they done this change was because its not prestigious to be a in a whitelisted gang anymore, think about it nowdays its more worth it for people to be in a unwhitelisted gang than a whitelisted one, unfortunaly the restrictions whistelisted gangs have right now are to punishing vs the rewards. Thats the way i think most people see it currently hence why people flock towards unwhitelisted gangs currently compared to the past.
I personaly dont think changing the cap is gonna change the whole issue of "prestige" but more like put a band aid on that and maybe make people value their place in a whitelisted gang a little bit more but to be honest this change in my opnion feels more like a band aid than an actual solution to the issue.
Whitelisted gangs currently need something that distinguishs them from unwhitelisted and right now its just not the case especially with drugs not being as good as doing bins, while i see the drugs are currently getting changed, as someone that likes to explore new things i can say with confidence that from what it looks like i still think a major buff is needed to them considering the crafting time and sale price (i could go into more detail but i feel like me typing it will only confuse the reader even more).
 
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would be great if someone from staff could shine some light on the reasoning behind this implementation!
 
L1L said:
would be great if someone could shine some light on the reasoning behind this implementation
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1. It gives an additional perk to being a whitelisted gang
2. It reduces the amount of people joining non-whitelisted gangs to get into fights with whitelisted gangs whilst they are still on the whitelisted gang cooldown (since non-whitelisted gangs are less likely to fight whitelisted gangs if they have less members)
 
Bmav said:
I believe the reason why they done this change was because its not prestigious to be a in a whitelisted gang anymore, think about it nowdays its more worth it for people to be in a unwhitelisted gang than a whitelisted one, unfortunaly the restrictions whistelisted gangs have right now are to punishing vs the rewards. Thats the way i think most people see it currently hence why people flock towards unwhitelisted gangs currently compared to the past.
I personaly dont think changing the cap is gonna change the whole issue of "prestige" but more like put a band aid on that and maybe make people value their place in a whitelisted gang a little bit more but to be honest this change in my opnion feels more like a band aid than an actual solution to the issue.
Whitelisted gangs currently need something that distinguishs them from unwhitelisted and right now its just not the case especially with drugs not being as good as doing bins, while i see the drugs are currently getting changed, as someone that likes to explore new things i can say with confidence that from what it looks like i still think a major buff is needed to them considering the crafting time and sale price (i could go into more detail but i feel like me typing it will only confuse the reader even more).
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I entirely agree, from when i first joined grove taking nearly 1-2 months to be a hangabout and another month to get in, the prestige was genuine and it had to be earned. However now days i feel depending on who you are and how needed you are, getting in a WL gang is "easy" but there have been new rules in place like stopping people from joining a new F6 for "X" ammount of time. I have experience both WL and Non-WL and i believe there does need to be a distinction between them where WL gangs have more benefits. I believe this is a step in the right direction as well as the fact that it can be changed if staff decide to grant it. It removes the "rush to 25" as well as making WL gangs ultimately with the power. Before i joined Alliance, i became aware that Mara were calling in drug packages for them due to losing a war, however arguably marabunta - a more established gang - shouldnt be under threat from newer/ less established gangs. Therefore i believe this creates a balance of hierarchy which this city needed to support WL but also motivate Non WL to become better on par with WL. It also helps non WL grow connections with WL gangs as it could establish a necessary reliance between them. Therefore i believe this implementation is beneficial and changes may occur so there's nothing to stress about. However i do believe groups not gangs perhaps should be given more, but this will obviously need to have reasons and understandings from staff and community.
 
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