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Report a player - 477, 230, 39, 597 - GTA RP

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Bobby_Delta

Bobby_Delta

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Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Tokjat Stock/Bobby Delta

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: 477, 230, 39, 597

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 11/24/21

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 23

What best describes this incident ?: Mass RDM

Please (in detail) describe the incident: we were chilling on grove with members of grove street Ghost and someone how's name i don't know after a while we decided to take some pictures then out of nowhere a lot of blackout cars pull up and start shooting with out saying a word to us the video will do the rest of the talking

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):




https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/4VGpQZhGioFP5/yK75hIMVnOyo?invite=cr-MSxVSjYsMzEzNDQzNjgs



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 
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here's my POV. 5 Min Clip. Probably the worst RP/RDM I've ever seen in 8 months on the server. Don't know how anyone can try and justify this and say its allowed.

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/72854340/d1337M9WWjps?invite=cr-MSw3ZE8sMzE2ODA5NjMs

IDs 477, 230, 105, 84 In the original car who opens fire without saying a word. 

IDs 612, 607 in the Aston martin DBS shooting slightly after, also without saying a word.

IDs 1, 259, 110 in the other car. 

No roleplay engaged from any of the ID's I've actually mentioned.

The logic behind people in TS after this incident would change the way the server is played completely and everyone would just go round shooting people all day every day without saying a word. Genuinely concerned that so many people thought this was okay to do. People have done a lot less and been banned for RDM.

 
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Myself and Cainey were in the Aston Martin DBS (612 and 607) and were sitting at the top of the road near Grove gas and were waiting on the word down radio to start shooting. Whilst waiting we heard that shots had been fired down the radio and could see shots going off, thinking that those that we were helping out had been getting shot at which alerted us to the scene to which we responded by driving down the road and began shooting. We believed the situation had been initiated as this is what we had been told down the radio and reacted accordingly to a shootout that we were involved in. 

When planning on the drive by the plan was to wait on the street for the word to be given down the radio to begin shooting. We had been told that Bobby was going initiate by shouting something along the lines of "this is a message for Tok". After meeting up with the Vagos we made our way to our individual positions and as stated in my previous paragraph, had been given the green light to begin the attack, being based at Grove gas means we would not be able to hear Bobby and were relying on coms to be given a signal, and all we heard down radio was "shots" and "one down" therefore meaning myself and Cainey took our planned out route down the street and began to assist. As seen in Toks clip you can briefly see us in the DBS based at the top of Grove street, therefore enforcing the fact that we would not be able to hear Bobby and were relying on Coms and also conveys why we did not speak as the fighting had already started.

We also did not speak as we were only present to assist as it had been requested by Vagos that a few of their older members (if they had the time) would come and give a helping hand and I agreed being friends with a decent amount of members in the gang as they have helped me in the past. We did not want to outright identify ourselves as Ballas as it is Vagos's fight and our two gangs don't need to fight due to our beef being squashed. With us only being there to assist if things go wrong we decided sitting at the top of the street was the best option as our gang is not directly involved as it only concerns those who help was requested from and not the gang as a whole. 

If any further information is needed I am happy to reply.

 
Darren Bridges said:
Myself and Cainey were in the Aston Martin DBS (612 and 607) and were sitting at the top of the road near Grove gas and were waiting on the word down radio to start shooting. Whilst waiting we heard that shots had been fired down the radio and could see shots going off, thinking that those that we were helping out had been getting shot at which alerted us to the scene to which we responded by driving down the road and began shooting. We believed the situation had been initiated as this is what we had been told down the radio and reacted accordingly to a shootout that we were involved in. 

When planning on the drive by the plan was to wait on the street for the word to be given down the radio to begin shooting. We had been told that Bobby was going initiate by shouting something along the lines of "this is a message for Tok". After meeting up with the Vagos we made our way to our individual positions and as stated in my previous paragraph, had been given the green light to begin the attack, being based at Grove gas means we would not be able to hear Bobby and were relying on coms to be given a signal, and all we heard down radio was "shots" and "one down" therefore meaning myself and Cainey took our planned out route down the street and began to assist. As seen in Toks clip you can briefly see us in the DBS based at the top of Grove street, therefore enforcing the fact that we would not be able to hear Bobby and were relying on Coms and also conveys why we did not speak as the fighting had already started.

We also did not speak as we were only present to assist as it had been requested by Vagos that a few of their older members (if they had the time) would come and give a helping hand and I agreed being friends with a decent amount of members in the gang as they have helped me in the past. We did not want to outright identify ourselves as Ballas as it is Vagos's fight and our two gangs don't need to fight due to our beef being squashed. With us only being there to assist if things go wrong we decided sitting at the top of the street was the best option as our gang is not directly involved as it only concerns those who help was requested from and not the gang as a whole. 

If any further information is needed I am happy to reply.
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so basically is that a long winded way of saying we didnt start shooting first we just heard shots fired and started to join in? im not sure if its just me but that doesnt justify the fact you all rocked up on turf together to attack us whilst we were sat there taking a photo together without a word spoken, not one of us in that situation was spoken to or warned people just started opening fire as soon as they saw us sat there using emotes etc without a chance to defend ourselves. the beef between grove and ballas etc is irrelevant in this situation what matters is that fact you all decided to open fire on us without any type of communication beforehand

 
I will reply to this topic as I was ID 477, The driver of the black car that first pulled up and it was also my idea to not be in Vagos Colours for this incident.

For the benefit of staff who have not been in Teamspeak with both parties over the last week I will try to give as much details as possible to aide the discussions that you will no doubt have surrounding this report. For the benefit of this thread in particular it would be much easier for everyone involved if the replies came from the person opening the report and we will try to keep Vagos replies concise to avoid it becoming a back and forth on the forums. For clarity this report is regarding IDs -  477, 230, 39, 597 as such this is all that will be addressed moving forwards. Anything else should be kept to a separate report/discussion if people feel the need to report those individuals.

Vagos & Grove have been at war now in RP for just over a week if my timeline is correct. The reason for the war is over a strip of road that intersects both turfs and both gangs want to sell on it and tax it. We had a meeting on Grove street that resulted in neither gang backing down and threats being made. This was followed up by a "turf push" by Grove using molotovs and shots were fired. It was clear that this was going to be a war from the get go which is totally fine. What followed since was days of back and forths. Sometimes Grove would push and shoot us on Turf, sometimes we would do the same. Grove would kidnap/torture etc Vagos members and we also picked up their members where we could.

Around the 2nd/3rd day we requested to set war rules to ensure the war didn't turn into a fuck fest. As Vagos we have been in many many wars and have come to appreciate that war rules are a great way to mould the roleplay and situations moving forwards so that it doesn't become weeks and weeks or turf pushes and retaliations like every single war on the server. We were initially told by Tok that we aren't a real gang and he doesn't need to set war rules. fine. We've had a session in Teamspeak previously with Staff present regarding the war at which point we were both heavily encouraged to set war rules between the gang leads as it stops things become a report fest. Although they aren't server rules they do become a gentlemen's agreement between gangs that tbh any decent person out of City would agree to follow. 

Examples of War rules that we were discussing are - Colours at all times if involved, KOS on Turfs, No dumping (police do enough confiscating) - These are usually foundation rules that a lot of wars involve. To make the war more unique to the scenario we also discussed as a gang rules such as no vehicles what so ever, due to the close nature of the turfs and the reason for it in the first place we would have like to have had "neighbourhood war" like really gangs would do. Once again this is due to the META that as soon as war starts people pull Supercars and Helions out of their arse in order to help them win a shootout that really hasn't advanced the RP in anyway what so ever. Shootouts are fun, but when they make sense.

Moving on to the incident in question, we had recently had grove circling our turf which resulted in both gangs shooting at each other (without words said). Grove were in full Green cars and we were in positions such as rooftops as with any gang war we anticipated an attack could happen at any point and were always ready. A lot of people were down, a lot of people we arrested and some were dumped. As a gang it took us a while to regroup and get everyone together again to plan how we would retaliate. We called in help from 3 previous Vagos members who were only recently removed and joined Ballas, 1 previous member who is still loyal to us and only recently left and also Darren who tagged along being friends with most of us.

As we were preparing to come down to Grove and attack I had a sudden thought of, Why are we doing this in yellow? The way we see war rules we always stick to them no matter what because we respect them for what they are. but we didn't have any, Tok didn't see us as a gang and had said it multiple times so why should we give them the upper hand of noticing us pulling up. From previous experience Grove have been known to use the surrounding rooftops as firing points as well as patrol the streets nearby. That is the kind of welcome we were expecting when we were approaching. Instead we found Grove making a human pyramid posing for a photo using emojis. It was at this point Bobby (leader of Vagos) was supposed to make reference to an apology Grove had requested and tell them where to stick it. We expected Grove to be expected a retaliation and therefore we did only initially think that we would be met with 1/2/3 people stood at the road side to the initiate a longer shoot out scenario with. This is bearing in mind that no previous turf pushes from either said bar a few exceptions have involved "words said" before shots are fired.
Unfortunately Bobby failed to activate his ingame push to talk button which had been working just prior around the corner when shouting his insults towards the Grove members posing for the picture. Accidents do happen and this was never denied in Teamspeak at all by anyone. That is evident in his clip which i will post below that still did pick up his audio.

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/72853086/d1337cocchyV?invite=cr-MSxMOWssMjI2OTc1Mjcs

The intention behind it was to send a message that we can hit anywhere at anytime and it is not a requirement or even a request to represent our colours if we don't want to.

Due to police showing up very quickly a lot of people did leave the scene very hastily which prevent much context being given afterwards. I did stay behind as it was my intention to try and take some Grove for some torture RP and more conversation however it kept fucking up and I couldn't even get people in my car. Its a little bit annoying how people lean against rules in RP and make comments such as "some Randoms shooting for no reason" and "mass deportation" or "shooting with no words" - By this point its obvious who it is in RP because random people would not roll up and shoot coincidently during a gang war with a neighbouring turf in retaliation to an initial push.

I don't have my clip of the shooting as It didn't cross my mind and by the time I captured it I was only able to get the aftermath from my POV.

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/72872125/d1337hoYQXOs?invite=cr-MSxRazEsMjA3OTQ2Mjgs

On the final note regarding war rules, it has been stated by Grove that these are OOC discussions and if they don't want them we don't have to do them. It is our opinion that they are there to enhance the wars and roleplay and create further interesting storylines. With factions such as the firm or even using Father Augustus as a mediator things such as rules can be RPd out such as The Firm could say something along the lines of im sick of seeing people in black shooting each other if you two want to go at it I want to see whos who and you never know I might be impressed etc. This is all creative stuff that can stop war rules from being OOC and something people try to avoid.

I think I have covered as much as I can to cover replies for the IDs involved, It may be easier if like I said Grove can collectively come to an reply jointly to post and make it easier for staff to evaluate.

Thanks, JB.

 
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ryanuptown said:
so basically is that a long winded way of saying we didnt start shooting first we just heard shots fired and started to join in? im not sure if its just me but that doesnt justify the fact you all rocked up on turf together to attack us whilst we were sat there taking a photo together without a word spoken, not one of us in that situation was spoken to or warned people just started opening fire as soon as they saw us sat there using emotes etc without a chance to defend ourselves. the beef between grove and ballas etc is irrelevant in this situation what matters is that fact you all decided to open fire on us without any type of communication beforehand
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It's not a long winded way of me saying anything, its me explaining my involvement in the situation. And my answer to  you bringing up the fact that I came down the street after hearing shots, is yes I did because that's what you do when you involve yourself in a firefight, you react to the information you are given and value your own life as well as those around you who you are fighting with to ensure they survive. By bringing that up you are essentially saying that if you caught wind of Grove pushing someone as you had just come onto coms or loaded in the server that you would do nothing and distance yourself from the situation which doesn't seem likely. You are trying to poke holes in what I have said to make it look as though I have done something wrong by reacting to my friends being shot. I did not speak as I believed something had been said which I have stated, I also did not speak as I am a Balla and it was not Ballas as a gangs business to be a part of but my own individual actions as I helped friends of mine similar to how they have helped me in the past.

You respond to my statement about Ballas saying that the beef between our gangs is irrelevant in this situation and I agree with you, but if you had taken the time to actually read what it was I had said you would realise that I state that our beef is squashed. You clearly skimmed through my response seen key words and decided it was enough to go on because of the fact you where ooc malding at the fact you were killed, I know this as Kieron was streaming the TS call which I was not in as once again I didn't know that Bobby had not said anything in game but quite frankly after seeing how your gang conducted yourself to the parties involved (Vagos and Staff) I'm glad I was not there. Staff are a mutual party that are there to mediate and take time out of their day to do so and the fact that some of your members decided it was fine to ignore what they were saying and shout over them about how you were just gonna break rules in the server sort of shows the type of people you are when something doesn't go your way.

I am sorry this situation didn't end inn your favour but that's unfortunately how life is I wish you all the best in your next engagement with the Vagos carrying on and hope that war rules are soon set so that a bigger report war doesn't spiral out from this situation. I am happy to jump into TS with a member of staff who was in the call yesterday and explain my side in person rather than on the forums so you can get a better understanding of what was happening for us, so (Chaos, Ram, Stuart) if any of you would like to contact me to set up a TS meeting my Discord should be linked to my profile but if not here it my username - StePettit#3224

 
Darren Bridges said:
It's not a long winded way of me saying anything, its me explaining my involvement in the situation. And my answer to  you bringing up the fact that I came down the street after hearing shots, is yes I did because that's what you do when you involve yourself in a firefight, you react to the information you are given and value your own life as well as those around you who you are fighting with to ensure they survive. By bringing that up you are essentially saying that if you caught wind of Grove pushing someone as you had just come onto coms or loaded in the server that you would do nothing and distance yourself from the situation which doesn't seem likely. You are trying to poke holes in what I have said to make it look as though I have done something wrong by reacting to my friends being shot. I did not speak as I believed something had been said which I have stated, I also did not speak as I am a Balla and it was not Ballas as a gangs business to be a part of but my own individual actions as I helped friends of mine similar to how they have helped me in the past.

You respond to my statement about Ballas saying that the beef between our gangs is irrelevant in this situation and I agree with you, but if you had taken the time to actually read what it was I had said you would realise that I state that our beef is squashed. You clearly skimmed through my response seen key words and decided it was enough to go on because of the fact you where ooc malding at the fact you were killed, I know this as Kieron was streaming the TS call which I was not in as once again I didn't know that Bobby had not said anything in game but quite frankly after seeing how your gang conducted yourself to the parties involved (Vagos and Staff) I'm glad I was not there. Staff are a mutual party that are there to mediate and take time out of their day to do so and the fact that some of your members decided it was fine to ignore what they were saying and shout over them about how you were just gonna break rules in the server sort of shows the type of people you are when something doesn't go your way.

I am sorry this situation didn't end inn your favour but that's unfortunately how life is I wish you all the best in your next engagement with the Vagos carrying on and hope that war rules are soon set so that a bigger report war doesn't spiral out from this situation. I am happy to jump into TS with a member of staff who was in the call yesterday and explain my side in person rather than on the forums so you can get a better understanding of what was happening for us, so (Chaos, Ram, Stuart) if any of you would like to contact me to set up a TS meeting my Discord should be linked to my profile but if not here it my username - StePettit#3224
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I am the person that was streaming the TS Call. 

It was very late, It was by complete accident, I was meant to record it however I clicked 'Start Streaming' instead of 'Start Recording'. There's no VOD on my Twitch and I have not streamed on there for well over 6 months. Luckily I did realise and turned it off as soon as I did.

I apologise if it caused any inconvenience, I did not do this for any reason at all, it was pure mistake. I have 0 past broadcasts on my Twitch, and always have. I fully respect the work Staff put in and I would never do anything to make them or anyone in the TS Call to feel uncomfortable. I will ensure it does not happen again in future.

 
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Darren Bridges said:
Staff are a mutual party that are there to mediate and take time out of their day to do so and the fact that some of your members decided it was fine to ignore what they were saying and shout over them about how you were just gonna break rules in the server sort of shows the type of people you are when something doesn't go your way.
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En light me what rules did we mention we were gonna break? The only thing we said was that we would repeat the same thing that the vagos did, since according to most of the staff that were present at the time stated that there was no issue (they also stated something along the lines that the only wrong thing they see was them being out of colors and not saying anything but they weren't sure if that would be enough for a report)  since it has been something that has been happening for a week which we didn't agree that's why we asked for more opinions because let's be honest if roleplay continues after a week it might as well be a war server instead of having roleplay on its name.

Besides there were neutral parties involved that agreed with our point of view on the matter (ghost) because let's be honest just because we have been fighting for a week doesn't mean you can just go out of colors, don't say anything at all and just KOS people it just doesn't make sense at all because if that's the case everyone you have any kinda of beef for a period of time it just means you get a free pass to RDM them.

You really think it would be visually appealing to a new player to see some random people in blacked out vehicles to pass by and just shoot some guys on sight without anything said? Obviously, no people would get out of the server within 3 minutes of being on it.

 
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Because if you take what happened in this situation into account and it's not a rule break, its literary the same as:

You been having some beef with police for a week and have about 3 or 2 gunfights a day against them so you are eligible to shoot them on sight, its exactly the same.

It would also be the same as :  Coming down to ballas turf and shoot you on sight just because we have had a beef for quite some time. (saying hypothetical if we didn't squash our beef with ballas)

 
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bmav said:
Because if you take what happened in this situation into account and it's not a rule break, its literary the same as:

You been having some beef with police for a week and have about 3 or 2 gunfights a day against them so you are eligible to shoot them on sight, its exactly the same.

It would also be the same as :  Coming down to ballas turf and shoot you on sight just because we have had a beef for quite some time. (saying hypothetical if we didn't squash our beef with ballas)
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How is this any different to circling Vagos turf in gang coloured cars and eventually shooting? Which HAS happened during this war. It’s either all wrong or it’s not. Circling in cars is the same level of RP that has been raised in this report. At the end of the day the line is not clear on what level of RP is required during a gang war when it comes to KOS when roleplay is continuous and on going throughout many days in a row. Yes server rules apply at all times is what is often said but if you’ve ever been in more than 1 gang war it’s generally accepted with the help of gang rules that both parties agree to relax what they consider to be against the rules to avoid wars becoming forum wars. 
its clear that this is what most experienced gang members accept as is evident in our other on going war with the lost who have got out of their identifiable outfits, changed from the bikes they usually use to faster bikes and even vehicles and are KOSing us on our turf or around the city with very little and sometimes no words said and that is from members of the staff team on those characters. 
 

 
Jason Barnes said:
How is this any different to circling Vagos turf in gang coloured cars and eventually shooting? Which HAS happened during this war. It’s either all wrong or it’s not. Circling in cars is the same level of RP that has been raised in this report. At the end of the day the line is not clear on what level of RP is required during a gang war when it comes to KOS when roleplay is continuous and on going throughout many days in a row. Yes server rules apply at all times is what is often said but if you’ve ever been in more than 1 gang war it’s generally accepted with the help of gang rules that both parties agree to relax what they consider to be against the rules to avoid wars becoming forum wars. 
its clear that this is what most experienced gang members accept as is evident in our other on going war with the lost who have got out of their identifiable outfits, changed from the bikes they usually use to faster bikes and even vehicles and are KOSing us on our turf or around the city with very little and sometimes no words said and that is from members of the staff team on those characters. 
 
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First, We didn't shoot anyone on sight on the situation that happened 2 hours before your push, I told the guy in the  freecrawler to put his hands up when he exited the vehicle and i wasn't sure if he heard it or not so we didn't shoot at first but them aleena started pointing a gun at me literaly less than a minute after i told him to put his hands up so it was safe to assume that he heard it.

Second, yes i see your point with War rules but they don't solve anything, last war we had with the ballas everytime one party lost a battle they would just add more rules into the war rules until it was just too much that there was no point and it ended up in forums aswell since has soon as 1 party breaks the war rules it just goes into a shitshow like usual.

Third, We are not the Lost if they did what they did go speak to them about it but from what i remember we have at least spoken to yous or said something before even shooting and we also tried doing different things when taking you hostage so i don't think the RP has been lacking from our side atleast thats how i feel.

I would just like to ask from your point of view does it make sense being able to shoot on sight without saying a word because you have had beef for a week? 

Because if thats the case i am go and shoot up the police station (obviously not doing it just said it to prove my point).

 
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Jason Barnes said:
How is this any different to circling Vagos turf in gang coloured cars and eventually shooting? 
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Patrolling in gang coloured vehicles and making a clear presence before the tension boils over is not the same as pulling up in all black and shooting without a word.

Jason Barnes said:
Circling in cars is the same level of RP that has been raised in this report. 
 
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No, it isn't. You pulled up and sprayed into a group of people who had nothing to do with you (as far as any of us knew).

Jason Barnes said:
its clear that this is what most experienced gang members accept as is evident in our other on going war with the lost who have got out of their identifiable outfits, changed from the bikes they usually use to faster bikes and even vehicles and are KOSing us on our turf or around the city with very little and sometimes no words said and that is from members of the staff team on those characters. 
 
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Nothing said here is anything to do with the situation in question and is just further waffling to try and distract from the issue at hand.

 
If my points are invalid then why am I constantly hearing about a Ballas war. People are in here talking about their own past experiences so I don’t see how you can shut me down for sharing mine. 
 

i said shots had been fired from vehicles without words during the war not specifically the push before we retaliated. Why would a gang in a war who had pushed a turf be bunched up taking photos? Just sounds like a lack of war experience and getting caught lacking to me.

black cars or yellow cars, a few words or no words. The end result would be the same. It’s a shame his mic didn’t work as intended and that’s an honest mistake. 
 

circling in coloured cars to show a presence is ok before shooting? So is that where you draw the line at quality RP for it to be not considered RDM? 
I am well aware of when good RP has taken place but we aren’t here to discuss that either. 
I’m not waffling or distracting anything I am posting very detailed replies consistently most of which is getting ignored and nit picked. 
if people abuse war rules that are set that’s up to them but we have alway set them in advance. Not altered them once they are in place and followed them to the letter because that’s the fair way to do it.

 
bmav said:
En light me what rules did we mention we were gonna break? The only thing we said was that we would repeat the same thing that the vagos did, since according to most of the staff that were present at the time stated that there was no issue (they also stated something along the lines that the only wrong thing they see was them being out of colors and not saying anything but they weren't sure if that would be enough for a report)  since it has been something that has been happening for a week which we didn't agree that's why we asked for more opinions because let's be honest if roleplay continues after a week it might as well be a war server instead of having roleplay on its name.

Besides there were neutral parties involved that agreed with our point of view on the matter (ghost) because let's be honest just because we have been fighting for a week doesn't mean you can just go out of colors, don't say anything at all and just KOS people it just doesn't make sense at all because if that's the case everyone you have any kinda of beef for a period of time it just means you get a free pass to RDM them.

You really think it would be visually appealing to a new player to see some random people in blacked out vehicles to pass by and just shoot some guys on sight without anything said? Obviously, no people would get out of the server within 3 minutes of being on it.
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Well I seem to recall a few of your members saying that they were just going to RDM anyone that they had roleplayed with in the past because it would be deemed "fine" by staff which is not what they were telling you at that point in time, they were simply stating that since yourselves and Vagos have been having an unofficial war that this sort of this is to be expecting within Roleplay albeit in colours, which staff did say was the only thing wrong with the situation.

You were caught at a point where you did not expect an attack and in real life if gang members kill each other the best time to do it is when they are least expecting it, not when they are stood with an army of people ready to take the attacker on. Personally I agree with your statement with you saying that having any kind of beef for a period is a free RDM pass as that person/group know that you have had beef and should be expecting retaliation this would make the server more immersive and life like as the rule of initiating is always a grey area. In the past when people have killed police for doing something against them I have heard police say there was no initiation and that saying "Fuck the police" would have sufficed but have then seen police still report people when someone says something short with them. 

In short if your in danger especially in the middle of a gang war whether it be official or not you should never think that you are safe because chances are you will get hit when you least expect it. Do I agree with Vagos being blacked out? No not really but it was their choice so I went along with it, its their gang at the end of the day and if I'm helping them what they say goes. 

As for new players to the server witnessing people get shot its no different to real life if your out and about and witness someone getting attacked there's not much you can do especially if you are spending your time in a known gangs territory, you know the risk you are getting yourself into when you are associated with a gang or are close with one so should always be prepared to see those around you get hit by their enemies. It's not as if you were getting a group photo in the middle of legion, you were all just stood in the middle of your car park on turf when you where hit so as I previously stated, if a new player is chilling with you on your turf they have to expect to see people get hit at some point.

 
Darren Bridges said:
Well I seem to recall a few of your members saying that they were just going to RDM anyone that they had roleplayed with in the past because it would be deemed "fine" by staff which is not what they were telling you at that point in time, they were simply stating that since yourselves and Vagos have been having an unofficial war that this sort of this is to be expecting within Roleplay albeit in colours, which staff did say was the only thing wrong with the situation.

You were caught at a point where you did not expect an attack and in real life if gang members kill each other the best time to do it is when they are least expecting it, not when they are stood with an army of people ready to take the attacker on. Personally I agree with your statement with you saying that having any kind of beef for a period is a free RDM pass as that person/group know that you have had beef and should be expecting retaliation this would make the server more immersive and life like as the rule of initiating is always a grey area. In the past when people have killed police for doing something against them I have heard police say there was no initiation and that saying "Fuck the police" would have sufficed but have then seen police still report people when someone says something short with them. 

In short if your in danger especially in the middle of a gang war whether it be official or not you should never think that you are safe because chances are you will get hit when you least expect it. Do I agree with Vagos being blacked out? No not really but it was their choice so I went along with it, its their gang at the end of the day and if I'm helping them what they say goes. 

As for new players to the server witnessing people get shot its no different to real life if your out and about and witness someone getting attacked there's not much you can do especially if you are spending your time in a known gangs territory, you know the risk you are getting yourself into when you are associated with a gang or are close with one so should always be prepared to see those around you get hit by their enemies. It's not as if you were getting a group photo in the middle of legion, you were all just stood in the middle of your car park on turf when you where hit so as I previously stated, if a new player is chilling with you on your turf they have to expect to see people get hit at some point.
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As for the first paragraph, i would like to say i am pretty sure that what the people meant is to kill someone if they had previous beef with them, it's called being sarcastic.

I am not saying i don't understand your point of view but you can't make it exactly like real life and we both know that otherwise everyone in the server wouldn't be driving at like 200 km/h, Crashing their cars 24/7 or have about 20 gangs in the server.

At the end of the day people play this to enjoy themselves if i wanted to come here, and it be exactly like in real life i might aswell not play.

My point in the whole shoot people on sight thing because of previous beef is that it shouldn't happen simply because it would be a huge gray area in the rules, and it would be determined by how much time you had beef with a certain amount of people and what proof do you have to show that you had beef with them, Basically it would literary be like playing roulette if the person broke rules or not.

 
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