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Vaping/Smoking - Safe?

Haywire

Escaped Convict
Location
England
For educational purposes and also on behalf of a friend I'm curious if there are any vapers/smokers on here? Or just anyone who knows a little about this stuff?

I'm looking at comparing the following in terms of health risks: 

Tobacco, Marijuana, Vape Juice

I understand that tobacco is by far the most dangerous to your health. However, I also read that vape juice contains nicotine although many of the harmful chemicals are not present. Marijuana is far safer than tobacco when considering physical health although I have looked at studies suggesting problems with brain development and psychosis (especially in people under 18 or people who have a mental disorder such as schizophrenia).

So for anyone who smokes or knows anything on this matter, what would you consider to be the safest option health wise? Also, how would you compare marijuana and vaping?

- Please don't turn this into a flame war - I'm asking for educational purposes only -
 
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Oh @DippyCoB I call you and your vape powers to this thread please enlighten us. (idk :p

But as far as I know when it comes to vape juice is that it's not safe if you get it on your skin/inside you becuase of the chemicals. Not sure was reading slmething a while back...

When it comes to nicotine in the Vape juice it depends really some do in diffrent amout of nicotine (you help pepole do less and less and then stop smoking) and some come without it.

That's my not so detailed answer but that's all I know :p

 
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But as far as I know when it comes to vape juice is that it's not safe if you get it on your skin/inside you becuase of the chemicals. Not sure was reading slmething a while back...
It's the nicotine that makes it dangerous to the skin.

 
Nicotine which is in most of the things you will find on the subject is baaaad shit...

Naturally occurring in your body with a natural intake, hence the ability to develop a chemical addiction (Causes the withdrawal symptoms). Once you take in more Nicotine than your already present limit, your body will adapt to intake that extra nicotine, thus raising the limit. If your intake does not get to that limit, you will start to experience withdrawal effects such as:

Headache
Nausea
Constipation or diarrhea
Fatigue, drowsiness, and insomnia
Irritability
Difficulty concentrating
Anxiety
Depressed mood
Increased hunger and caloric intake
Increased desire for the taste of sweets
Tobacco cravings

Nicotine is not that bad in small quantities besides the withdrawal but it's used has been linked to diseases/issues such as:

Cancer

Fetal development issues (don't be pregnant and smoke)

Vascular system (this one is weird because most of the vascular problems alongside nicotine come from studies with smoking tobacco but general diseases with heart and your circulatory system)

Reinforcement disorders (Leads to other disorders and psychological diseases and their effects being increased and reinforced i.e. Depression, anxiety)

Often seen as a "Gateway drug" (To be honest don't really agree with this one, if you don't want to do something then don't do it, nicotine isn't to blame for you doing heroin)

That kinda covers the whole Vapes that contain nicotine and as a friend of mine found, it can be hard to find none-nicotine filled vapes (he actually got addicted because of vaping to nicotine).

Smoking has many other issues that come with it... but I will let you read up on them I am sure you are aware of how much information on this subject is available online or even your cigarette packages.

But I will leave you with some nasty things in most cigarettes:

Acrolein - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

Formaldehyde - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

Acrylonitrile - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

A few more chemical names that cause cancer.... blah blah...

Second hand smoke aka you are near someone who smokes:

"Second-hand smoke has been estimated to cause 38,000 deaths per year, of which 3,400 are deaths from lung cancer in nonsmokers." - Tobaccofreefloridanewsroom.com. Retrieved 2013-01-02.

"Scientific evidence shows no level of exposure to second-hand smoke is safe" - Cancer.org. Retrieved 2012-03-25.

Benefits of smoking:

Really struggled to find any sources...

Purely sourced from me now:

It can have a calming effect as smoking a cigarette can be a depressant which will slow your heart rate and generally calm you, so if you have a stressful day it will help out with staying calm and focused (I use caffeine for this although it doesn't calm me very well but it does keep me focused).

The taxation, the government makes a fortune of tobacco sales and will keep doing so and as far as I can read at least some of it goes into the NHS to pay for the health care costs of smokers. (The taxes does not come close to funding the strain on the NHS, but obesity is a worse drain!)

Social effects, at one point you were considered the "Cool kid" if you smoked, and in parts of the country this is still true.

Didn't even talk about marijuana - moving onto that now:

Marijuana has uses Medically, recreationly and spiritually in different states and cultures.

Although illegal in most countries it is legalised in places like the Netherlands and the states of Colorado and California in the USA.  -Heavily Taxed once again.

It has some down sides as far as I can see but they are similar to that of smoking in general with carcinogens present in both Marijuana and Tobacco, it seems just safer to not do either drug.

" Cannabis has not been reported to cause fatal overdose" -  Drug Alcohol Rev. 29 (3): 318–30. doi:10.1111/j.1465-3362.2009.00149.x. PMID 20565525.

Excessive use causes lung issues but small usage does not seem to do so even over prolonged periods of time.

"Epidemiological studies have found a strong correlation between cannabis use and the risk of psychosis, and found the risk is higher for with strains higher in THC." - Biol. Psychiatry. 79 (7): 604–12. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2015.11.018. PMID 26852073.

One key difference in Tobacco and Marijuana usage is the lack of withdrawal symptoms 

"Cannabis usually causes no tolerance or withdrawal symptoms except in heavy users." - "Withdrawal Symptoms From Smoking Pot?". WebMD.

TL;DR

Cigarettes have many health problems not just necessarily nicotine, increased nicotine consumption is bad. Uhhh Vapes haven't been round long enough to see real statistical evidence that none-nicotine present vapes actually cause much harm, however that is what people thought about thalidomide as a morning sickness drug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide).

Marijuana while not as bad is still bad kids. Much like smoking it can have an adverse effect on your health if your brain is not fully developed, smoking before the age of 25 marijuana has seen a decrease in the total development of the brain. Not just your physical health, but mental leading to increased chance of developing schizophrenia, psychosis etc.

Don't take what randomers say on the internet as truth, they may be wrong or lieing. Do your own research and make up your own mind. Just because I tell you one thing and quote a source doesn't even mean that is the actual fact!

TL;DR 2

Drugs are bad mkay.

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Sources:

http://www.webmd.com/smoking-cessation/understanding-nicotine-withdrawal-symptoms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotine (OMG HE USED WIKIPEDIA OMFG BURN HIM... yes yes I get it but the Wikipedia article is as justified as my interpretation and how I have presented my arguments here.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cigarette

https://www.gov.uk/tax-on-shopping/alcohol-tobacco

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis_(drug)

I totally didn't go way overboard and regret my decisions as I click submit reply... no no... not 4:30 am now no no it isn't.....

 
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I mean i have done all 3 now i do 2 of them nit going to specify but most people know i smoke  so what i have experinced in my year in half is basically memory loss , headaches, vomiting, whiteing (passing out), nicky rushes (Head rushes but worse) thats really it i mean what sam took offline is bassicaly correct i mean even as i wrote this i was smoking so i mean its pretty bad but i mean well if you have health issues i would higly reccomend staying away from it i mean i have weak lungs be fore i smoked so imget exausted fast like i walk to the kitchen i am alreday breathing heviare dosent help im 23 stone but i digress its bad if i could stop i would but for now its a daily struggle with out them

 
1 hour ago, Samuel Thompson said:

Nicotine which is in most of the things you will find on the subject is baaaad shit...

Naturally occurring in your body with a natural intake, hence the ability to develop a chemical addiction (Causes the withdrawal symptoms). Once you take in more Nicotine than your already present limit, your body will adapt to intake that extra nicotine, thus raising the limit. If your intake does not get to that limit, you will start to experience withdrawal effects such as:

Headache
Nausea
Constipation or diarrhea
Fatigue, drowsiness, and insomnia
Irritability
Difficulty concentrating
Anxiety
Depressed mood
Increased hunger and caloric intake
Increased desire for the taste of sweets
Tobacco cravings

Nicotine is not that bad in small quantities besides the withdrawal but it's used has been linked to diseases/issues such as:

Cancer

Fetal development issues (don't be pregnant and smoke)

Vascular system (this one is weird because most of the vascular problems alongside nicotine come from studies with smoking tobacco but general diseases with heart and your circulatory system)

Reinforcement disorders (Leads to other disorders and psychological diseases and their effects being increased and reinforced i.e. Depression, anxiety)

Often seen as a "Gateway drug" (To be honest don't really agree with this one, if you don't want to do something then don't do it, nicotine isn't to blame for you doing heroin)

That kinda covers the whole Vapes that contain nicotine and as a friend of mine found, it can be hard to find none-nicotine filled vapes (he actually got addicted because of vaping to nicotine).

Smoking has many other issues that come with it... but I will let you read up on them I am sure you are aware of how much information on this subject is available online or even your cigarette packages.

But I will leave you with some nasty things in most cigarettes:

Acrolein - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

Formaldehyde - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

Acrylonitrile - Causes Cell Death/Cancer

A few more chemical names that cause cancer.... blah blah...

Second hand smoke aka you are near someone who smokes:

"Second-hand smoke has been estimated to cause 38,000 deaths per year, of which 3,400 are deaths from lung cancer in nonsmokers." - Tobaccofreefloridanewsroom.com. Retrieved 2013-01-02.

"Scientific evidence shows no level of exposure to second-hand smoke is safe" - Cancer.org. Retrieved 2012-03-25.

Benefits of smoking:

Really struggled to find any sources...

Purely sourced from me now:

It can have a calming effect as smoking a cigarette can be a depressant which will slow your heart rate and generally calm you, so if you have a stressful day it will help out with staying calm and focused (I use caffeine for this although it doesn't calm me very well but it does keep me focused).

The taxation, the government makes a fortune of tobacco sales and will keep doing so and as far as I can read at least some of it goes into the NHS to pay for the health care costs of smokers. (The taxes does not come close to funding the strain on the NHS, but obesity is a worse drain!)

Social effects, at one point you were considered the "Cool kid" if you smoked, and in parts of the country this is still true.

Didn't even talk about marijuana - moving onto that now:

Marijuana has uses Medically, recreationly and spiritually in different states and cultures.

Although illegal in most countries it is legalised in places like the Netherlands and the states of Colorado and California in the USA.  -Heavily Taxed once again.

It has some down sides as far as I can see but they are similar to that of smoking in general with carcinogens present in both Marijuana and Tobacco, it seems just safer to not do either drug.

" Cannabis has not been reported to cause fatal overdose" -  Drug Alcohol Rev. 29 (3): 318–30. doi:10.1111/j.1465-3362.2009.00149.x. PMID 20565525.

Excessive use causes lung issues but small usage does not seem to do so even over prolonged periods of time.

"Epidemiological studies have found a strong correlation between cannabis use and the risk of psychosis, and found the risk is higher for with strains higher in THC." - Biol. Psychiatry. 79 (7): 604–12. doi:10.1016/j.biopsych.2015.11.018. PMID 26852073.

One key difference in Tobacco and Marijuana usage is the lack of withdrawal symptoms 

"Cannabis usually causes no tolerance or withdrawal symptoms except in heavy users." - "Withdrawal Symptoms From Smoking Pot?". WebMD.

TL;DR

Cigarettes have many health problems not just necessarily nicotine, increased nicotine consumption is bad. Uhhh Vapes haven't been round long enough to see real statistical evidence that none-nicotine present vapes actually cause much harm, however that is what people thought about thalidomide as a morning sickness drug (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thalidomide).

Marijuana while not as bad is still bad kids. Much like smoking it can have an adverse effect on your health if your brain is not fully developed, smoking before the age of 25 marijuana has seen a decrease in the total development of the brain. Not just your physical health, but mental leading to increased chance of developing schizophrenia, psychosis etc.

Don't take what randomers say on the internet as truth, they may be wrong or lieing. Do your own research and make up your own mind. Just because I tell you one thing and quote a source doesn't even mean that is the actual fact!

TL;DR 2

Drugs are bad mkay.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.
That was impressive actually...

As I do not drink or smoke tobacco the purpose of this post was to explore less harmful ways to enjoy yourself. I am now leaning towards not bothering with a vape kit and only touching marijuana occasionally until I 'grow up'. I have, like many people, done a lot of research into the topic but it's nice to get a point of view from real people rather than celebrities and bias radio shows.

I do come to the conclusion that many ways of enjoying yourself aren't good for you. Whether it be alcohol, tobacco, sitting on your chair all day playing arma, weed, drugs or eating a load of sweets it all has negative effects on you. I suppose it's important to understand what you're putting in your body and you make the choice whether it's worth it or not. For me, I just prefer to find the least harmful ways to do so.

It's very early in the morning, in my head I sound like some philosopher but I probably come across as the madman shouting about the end of the world. In seriousness though, I appreciate the responses :)

 
@Haywire

Smoking: Bad for you cuz of Nicotine, teer, etc. 

Marijuana: It's okay, but it's mostly mixed with tobacco because else it won't stay on. The entire "It's a gateway drug"-thing doesn't really affect me, but it could be different per person.

Vaping(Dont really have much experience with vaping, but a couple of friends vape a lot):

 - Normal Juice(With Nicotone): It's okay, great replacement for a normal cigarette. Without Nicotine its also a good way to stay of cigarettes, but not as good as with Nicotine.

- THC Liquid: They think it's amazing :p

Honestly, I think it's all bad for you, but you won't notice untill you are like old old. In the meanwhile, you should also try new things etc. In the end it's your decision etc. 

Edit: 3100th post 

 
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The thing with smoking tobacco and marijuana is that you are inhaling the combustion products as well as just the nictoine (Tobacco) or THC/CBD (Marijuana).   Inhaling the combustion products of either its what leads to the vast amount of physical damage that can occur (cancer, lung disease, etc..) Tobacco tends to be relatively worse because of many other chemicals added by the companies in processing the raw plant and making it suitable for rolling / using in mass produced cigarettes, but burning anything and inhaling the result is basically a bad thing.

Vaping works differently, as there is no combustion, so that is cutting out a lot of the risk factors straight away. The effects of just pure nicotine are nowhere near as bad as the combustion products that go along with smoking. However, nobody is currently certain of the long term effects of inhaling the vapour created by electronic cigarettes and the like because they also contain flavourings and there have been no studies on the long term effects, but the current best guess is that it probably isn't as bad as inhaling the combustion products from smoking.

afaik it isnt possible to 'vape' marijuana / THC or CBD.

basically, if you're setting fire to it and inhaling it you are likely putting yourself at high risk. The current wisdom is that vapour based ingestion is likely much safer as there is no burning involved, but there is still little known about the long term affects.
 

 
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