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Tyres mean death?

IgnorantBagel

IgnorantBagel

Banned
To keep this short and sweet. Recently a trend of rebels shooting police after their tyres are shot at has occured and to me this just cuts out ANY opprtunity for roleplay as well as just follows the trend of shooting as soon as one is physically able to do so within the rules.

To put in terms that make me feel ill, do tyres mean initiation has been given

I was hoping for this to be raised within management and/or added to the rules/clarified.

Ta

 
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It was my understanding that to shoot at tyres there had to be some form of initiation prior, unless it was after three minutes of a police chase in which the shooting at tyres was only to disable the vehicle and does not count as initiation, meaning that both sides will still have to verbally initiate properly.

 
Dr Gurlanin said:
It was my understanding that to shoot at tyres there had to be some form of initiation prior, unless it was after three minutes of a police chase in which the shooting at tyres was only to disable the vehicle and does not count as initiation, meaning that both sides will still have to verbally initiate properly.
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Police will have to tell the person that his tyres will be shot if he does not stop. This has to happen even 3 minutes have passed as the 3 minute rules is a police rule and there is server rules what dictate other stuff. So for example if im to initiate on your tyres and then shoot em directly after the initiation and the police rule set of opening fire would not fill up, I would be done withing the police. However if I would to shoot at ur tyres after a 3 minute chase without saying anything, you would ban me from RDM.

[SIZE=medium](2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).[/SIZE]

Then there is 7.1.3 what answers to @ArrogantBread's question directly:

[SIZE=medium](7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. [/SIZE]

So to put 2 pieces together. If you run from police, they will have to initiate on ur tyres to shoot em. If they dont they can be done from RDM. If they do and you stop and kill em, you can be done from 7.1.3. Those 2 rules are really simple and I dont think there is much of room for misunderstandings.

 
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angellfall said:
Police will have to tell the person that his tires will be shot if he does not stop. This has to happen even 3 minutes have passed as the 3 minute rules is a police rule and there is server rules what dictate other stuff. So for example if im to initiate on your tires and then shoot em directly after the initiation and the police rule set of opening fire would not fill up, I would be done withing the police. However if I would to shoot at ur tires after a 3 minute chase without saying anything, you would ban me from RDM.

[SIZE=medium](2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).[/SIZE]

Then there is 7.1.3 what answers to @ArrogantBread's question directly:

[SIZE=medium](7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. [/SIZE]

So to put 2 pieces together. If you run from police, they will have to initiate on ur tires to shoot em. If they dont they can be done from RDM. If they do and you stop and kill em, you can be done from 7.1.3.
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Pretty much this. Thank you for clearing up the three minute rule.

In a situation where you are unsure if there has been initiation or not, then you should always take the "better safe than sorry route" of making it happen yourself. At the end of the day, if you haven't made sure and a member of staff deems that there wasn't sufficient RP or initiation, then it's you that is going to get banned.

I'm going to leave it for a higher member of staff to properly/officially answer your question, but I personally would not consider shooting at tyres to be initiation, although I would say that there must be some sort of initiation on the tyres beforehand. Shooting at tyres disables a vehicle, and keeps the occupants alive and available for further RP, essentially making it a non-lethal option. Accidents do sometimes happen, which is why one must make sure it is clear that they are going to shoot the tyres, but the primary purpose is to try and keep the occupants alive.

If I was on admin duty, I would ban someone who initiated on the tyres, shot them out, and then, without saying anything else, went up to the vehicle and shot the driver. That, in my eyes, is RDM. Same goes for the vice versa: tyres shot out, occupants exit vehicle and spray down their pursuers.

 
My opinion as an officer i always expect to be shot back after tires have been shot at. 

So for me its initiation. 

Right now the problem is that some officers without saying names shoot tires 2 seconds after initiation. This means You stil have 2min and 58 seconds left of that chase basen on the Police Rules/Guidelines. 

People need to stop this and atleast try to attempt follow the rules. Some higher ranks have this problem and some lover ranks. 

 
In some cases you don t need to wait 3 minutes. Also, Police are not allowed under ANY circumstances to shoot at tyres BEFORE INITATING ON TYRES. Also, most of the time we shoot TYRES rebels start killing us.

 
Yes, it is a little annoying when as soon as you shoot someone's tires, you instantly get shot out, it's borderline baiting. Understandibly, they are being shot at so they shoot back but I don't think this is the case. I think the rebel pursuing the Police should get out at a random place and 1 rebel in (a gang?) could just simply get out of the car and as the vehicle being pursued by the Police drives past and the Police are about to pass you, you say 'Officer, if you chase this man any more, you will be shot' because it gives us no warning if they are armed, dangerous and if they have friends in the area (unless we Metagame of course!)

 
I have got to disagree with you @ArrogantBread this is not a trend that has just started it has been happening since i have been a member of this community which is nearly two years.

The answer to this question is going to be very one sided and i believe more cops are going to answer on this replying " I dont think it should be initiation as we arer shooting tyres and there is no threat to your life".

WRONG, there is a threat to me life, many times have we seen that stray bullet or ricochet hit and kill the driver or some of the occupants in the car.

In my opinion the cops hide behind the NON LETHAL actions too much in my opinion, Whether it be tazing someone or attempting to tazer someone or shooting tyres these in my eyes these should be seen as acts of initiation as the consequences of doing these acts are just the same as if you're using lethal's.

To wrap my opinion up i would just like to add I believe it falls under the common sense rule, If you get shot at expect said person to return fire.

 
Dr Gurlanin said:
Pretty much this. Thank you for clearing up the three minute rule.

In a situation where you are unsure if there has been initiation or not, then you should always take the "better safe than sorry route" of making it happen yourself. At the end of the day, if you haven't made sure and a member of staff deems that there wasn't sufficient RP or initiation, then it's you that is going to get banned.

I'm going to leave it for a higher member of staff to properly/officially answer your question, but I personally would not consider shooting at tyres to be initiation, although I would say that there must be some sort of initiation on the tyres beforehand. Shooting at tyres disables a vehicle, and keeps the occupants alive and available for further RP, essentially making it a non-lethal option. Accidents do sometimes happen, which is why one must make sure it is clear that they are going to shoot the tyres, but the primary purpose is to try and keep the occupants alive.

If I was on admin duty, I would ban someone who initiated on the tyres, shot them out, and then, without saying anything else, went up to the vehicle and shot the driver. That, in my eyes, is RDM. Same goes for the vice versa: tyres shot out, occupants exit vehicle and spray down their pursuers.
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I think you miss understand the question. It's a question that can rebels shoot back, not can police kill people after iniation on tyres.

 
BennyBait said:
I think you miss understand the question. It's a question that can rebels shoot back, not can police kill people after iniation on tyres.
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I think you misread my answer. Read it again :p

 
TCK John Dillinger said:
I have got to disagree with you @ArrogantBread this is not a trend that has just started it has been happening since i have been a member of this community which is nearly two years.

The answer to this question is going to be very one sided and i believe more cops are going to answer on this replying " I dont think it should be initiation as we arer shooting tyres and there is no threat to your life".

WRONG, there is a threat to me life, many times have we seen that stray bullet or ricochet hit and kill the driver or some of the occupants in the car.

In my opinion the cops hide behind the NON LETHAL actions too much in my opinion, Whether it be tazing someone or attempting to tazer someone or shooting tyres these in my eyes these should be seen as acts of initiation as the consequences of doing these acts are just the same as if you're using lethal's.

To wrap my opinion up i would just like to add I believe it falls under the common sense rule, If you get shot at expect said person to return fire.
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However what you just described is a directly conflicting with 7.1.3. There are many rules what make no sence but are there for a purpose. Same for this one. Gunfight should be the last resort and like arrogant explained its way too often situations like this just explode to huge gunfights without barely any words said. It can be just that some people have forgotten these rules exist and some people take advantage over them. However neither of those is a reason to break a rule what is really simple.

 
angellfall said:
However what you just described is a directly conflicting with 7.1.3. There are many rules what make no sence but are there for a purpose. Same for this one. Gunfight should be the last resort and like arrogant explained its way too often situations like this just explode to huge gunfights without barely any words said. It can be just that some people have forgotten these rules exist and some people take advantage over them. However neither of those is a reason to break a rule what is really simple.
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You can argue 7.1.3. till your blue in the face i can give you examples of poor roleplay that lead to peoples death on a daily basis and nobody complains about it as they accept it as being acceptable.

My opinion wont be changed buddy, If you pull the trigger regardless of lethal's or not then expect to be shot back.

Of course im not going to shoot anyone who threatens to taze me lol as that would be bad in the eyes of the server but my opinion stands, pull the trigger and expect to be shot.

 
TCK John Dillinger said:
You can argue 7.1.3. till your blue in the face i can give you examples of poor roleplay that lead to peoples death on a daily basis and nobody complains about it as they accept it as being acceptable.

My opinion wont be changed buddy, If you pull the trigger regardless of lethal's or not then expect to be shot back.

Of course im not going to shoot anyone who threatens to taze me lol as that would be bad in the eyes of the server but my opinion stands, pull the trigger and expect to be shot.
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Im sorry you missunderstood me. Im not arguing here. It must be my English. 

The rule is simple and clear. Im not here to supervise them but if you gonna pull something like that agaist someone I would expect you to get into trouble for it.

 
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@TCK John Dillinger

Look at it from the other point of view. The police chase a car that's wanted, eventually have some high quality roleplay to disable the vehicle. One officer fires to stop the car and all 15 officers around are fired upon... bit shit really.

It's also often just used to lead to a gunfight instead of roleplaying... they get shop upon and instead of trying to run (which in some cases is very easy) they lead the police to a trap.

 
So you're initiating on tyres.. an OBJECT that cannot roleplay back and is controlled by a player.. You are initiating on a PLAYER and threatening their lives by firing; although you may not directly aim at them you are still presenting a threat to that person, other occupants and that persons property. You shoot and get shot back? Boo whoooo, don't be surprised. You've just ruined most chances at any good roleplay that doesn't involve shooting. If you're a cop you can spike strip the car, oh it's too difficult and impossible? Bullshit. Wait for the right opportunity even if it takes 5 minutes, set up spikes like you would set up snipers. Play smarter than the rebel or civ.

You're a rebel with spikes? Then use them smartly.

 
Rossss said:
Does that mean it's not an execution if they get shot?
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Are you INTENDING on taking someone's life? Probably not, but if they get out and start pinging you back then neutralise the threat. Killing them by accident? It's the risk you take by shooting and the risk they take by driving.

(what I have said on this thread is my opinion, this subject is being brought up on the staff meeting)

 
Samatlewis said:
Are you INTENDING on taking someone's life? Probably not, but if they get out and start pinging you back then neutralise the threat. Killing them by accident? It's the risk you take by shooting and the risk they take by driving.

(what I have said on this thread is my opinion, this subject is being brought up on the staff meeting)
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Of course not intending, but the amount of complaining from people accidentally being killed and claiming it was an execution is unreal. It's not as if they've lined you up and shot you...

 
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