Report a Player - [TCK] P.Vutin - RDM (Denied 29/03/2017)

[Mecidon]

Your In-game name

Mecidon

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

[TCK] P.Vutin

Date of the incident

03/28/2017

Time of the incident (GMT)

19

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

We were doing a peaceful methrun when we saw a helicopter hovering the area, we decided to give it several sets of warning shots and when Happyknife decided to shoot it down we got interrupted by James saying he heard a voice.
We couldn't understand what the guy was saying properly and as seen in the video below we were speculating about what he said, a quote from me saying what I thought I heard; "They got friends in the area, don't shoot or something", which on its own isn't even an initiation, it's rather the opposit as asking us not to shoot them, like they are coming up and want to do meth or similar without being shot by US.
When James decided to walk up and asks him clearly: "Dude, what are you saying?", he got shot whilst still finishing the sentence.

I feel like initiating that poorly from that far away is unacceptable, it doesn't matter if they said more that we couldn't hear, it's their responsibility to make sure that we hear, not stand 20 meters away behind a house. This initiation that is clear RDM is far below the standards of what this server asks from a proper initiation.

We did take it to teamspeak and there was an agreement to take it to compensation instead, ask admins like MadMatt, Smith, Busterguy, Matt that was in the room at the time when that agreement was made. We wanted a response before midnight (which was in about 3 hours at the time) and got this:

<21:15:41> "[TCK] P.Vutin": My friends are looking at it. Will respond when we have an answer.
<21:15:51> "James™": ok dude
<21:18:51> "James™": Ok well we want a decision by midnight, which is in about 3h from now
<21:288> "[TCK] P.Vutin": Talked to the guys
<21:28:18> "James™": yep and?
<21:28:21> "[TCK] P.Vutin": We decided we rather see a report than something i cant afford

That they can't afford to give us what we lost cause of RDM is jibberish, since they clearly specify that several individuals have talked the comp over, and that they can't comp what we lost when putting their wallets together is just silly (they even sold one of our trucks worth about 800k). We had an agreement that comp would settle it instead of a report, but got a response like this back afterwards.

Which is why I have decided to make this report.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://youtu.be/bgC30uhQN-c?t=260
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[PladimirVutin]

This is [TCK] P.Vutin.

When we talked about this on the teamspeak with the staff members and several people involved, you should know by now that i had a proper initiation but because of arma buginess and other circumstances like sound of processing, rain and other stuff. You didnt hear the hole initiation. I told you i am sorry about this. But i dont see this as an RDM as in my POV. I did a good initiaton wich a staff member can confirm, and i saw you guys running in positions taking cover so i felt like you guys heard me and knew what was going on.

When you walked up to me. I shot you out of shock cause i initiated and when someone runs up to you with a gun its a natural reaction. At the time i didnt hear James saying that he didnt understood as i was talking in TS on what was going on.

When we were in the teamspeak you told me you were going to report me, then after you came with a compensation request wich i cant afford. (You can look it up in my stats page if you want.) So to be fair and not go around begging people who didnt have anything to do with my mistake for money for the comp, i decided it was better for me to just post a report and let the staff members take a look at it.

So to summarize. We thought you heard us, You came running to me, Other guys taking positions. I felt threathend. Thats i shot. And i cant comp simply because i cant afford it.

I have already talked with a staff member about what to do next time. A better approach with me showing myself as a robber would be better than a voice out of nowhere.

I understand all the rules and always follow them since my last ban. In my POV this isnt a rulebreak, Its more like a mistake that would not have happend if i initiaded from a better spot.

 

[Mecidon]

As I mentioned in the report, it really DOES NOT MATTER what you say if the people you are saying it to can't hear you, we're going by what we heard, and if we can't hear you initiate through a building and 20 m then maybe try walking up to people to make sure we can hear you?

As I also said, it's up to the person doing the initiation to make sure that the people being initiated on can hear you, if we can't cause there are too many objects in the way + a long distance, then it's not our problem, it's yours.

Edit: I am thus not going to walk around in a circle with you here since we had the comp agreement after long talks, but since that was later denied, I will wait for staff.

 

[PladimirVutin]

As I mentioned in the report, it really DOES NOT MATTER what you say if the people you are saying it to can't hear you, we're going by what we heard, and if we can't hear you initiate through a building and 20 m then maybe try walking up to people to make sure we can hear you?

As I also said, it's up to the person doing the initiation to make sure that the people being initiated on can hear you, if we can't cause there are too many objects in the way + a long distance, then it's not our problem, it's yours.

never made it your problem.

Already told you i am sorry and that this is my fault. But reporting someone for breaking rules or making a mistake by choosing a wrong spot is 2 different things in my opinion.

 

[Mecidon]

This may seem like a weird analogy to you but here it goes.

If you are from the UK or any other country, you travel to Spain and decide to rent a car there, it is up to you to be 100% on the traffic rules, it is not Spains responsibility to teach you their rules when you travel there, it is your own responsibility to check up the rules and make sure that everything is correct and perfect before you head out on the roads.

Just like here.

It is your responsibility to be 100% about the rules and be 100% certain that everything is done correct, like making sure we hear you in this case, if you break rules or do things sloppy an initiation can turn into an RDM like in this case. It is your own fault for not reading them correctly and remembering them before you do these things.

 

[PladimirVutin]

This may seem like a weird analogy to you but here it goes.

If you are from the UK or any other country, you travel to Spain and decide to rent a car there, it is up to you to be 100% on the traffic rules, it is not Spains responsibility to teach you their rules when you travel there, it is your own responsibility to check up the rules and make sure that everything is correct and perfect before you head out on the roads.

Just like here.

It is your responsibility to be 100% about the rules and be 100% certain that everything is done correct, like making sure we hear you in this case, if you break rules or do things sloppy an initiation can turn into an RDM like in this case. It is your own fault for not reading them correctly and remembering them before you do these things.

I can assure you that i know all rules.

Thing is, If i knew from the start that you didnt hear me i would have initiated  again. But everyone taking position and someone running up to me made it clear to me (In my POV) that you heard me. The guy running up to me asking me what i was saying was a threath in my eyes as he had a gun and being unmc and all, very profesional at shooting and all that. Thats why i shot him. Also cant really hear someone talking from around the corner and 3 people asking if they can shoot in Teamspeak didnt help with that either.

 

[Mecidon]

That your comms are awful doesn't matter in my eyes, the fact is that your initiation was poor, so poor from our POV that what we heard even sounded like someone asking NOT to be shot by US, and if someone comes up to you with his weapon lowered, talking and saying "Dude, what did you say?" in a very wondering and friendly voice, not a threatening, the least you can do is respond.

This is the final time that I will respond for now as all facts are on the table.

 

[Jamessss]

I can assure you that i know all rules.

Thing is, If i knew from the start that you didnt hear me i would have initiated  again. But everyone taking position and someone running up to me made it clear to me (In my POV) that you heard me. The guy running up to me asking me what i was saying was a threath in my eyes as he had a gun and being unmc and all, very profesional at shooting and all that. Thats why i shot him. Also cant really hear someone talking from around the corner and 3 people asking if they can shoot in Teamspeak didnt help with that either.

I'm sorry but what threat was I to you with my gun lowered? A minor one at most

 

[Smith]

Commenting here as staff who was mediating discussion on TS.

Let's start be getting one quite big fact right here;

" it really DOES NOT MATTER what you say if the people you are saying it to can't hear you "

This is, simply, not the case. It matters VERY much what somebody says, even if they cant hear you. As Vutin has stated, his initiation was of a good quality (Matt was infact present in the TS room as this was hotmiced lived and he can confirm this). It is unfortunate that it was out of earshot of the UNMC. If someone were to give poor initiation out of earshot, it carries forth that if they had been in earshot, it would have been poor RP still. However, as Vutin has given good quality initiation, it clearly shows his INTENT was not to give poor quality RP.

I'm going to say this, again, one more time, very, very clearly. Having uncovered the truth from both sides, it is clear that the reason the initiation seemed poor was because it was out of earshot, not because of what was said. Granted, I could give top quality (and I hate to use the word initiation, as we should be focusing on roleplay, but I digress.) initiation from the top of a hill 2km away from my victim. This obviously would be unacceptable as there is no earthly way this could be heard. The distance that Vutin was at is well within acceptable hearing range, however, due to the nature of his positioning relative to cover, combined with how sound works in Arma, it was unfortunately not close enough.

The important thing to realise here is the INTENT and the fact that this is a non-malicious incident. It is accidental. Much like how you may antecedently pull out at a junction and hit a car, you wouldn't get done for VDM.

Further more, Vutin made no attempt to defend his actions, he admitted that it is up to him to be within suitable hearing distance and was simply the victim of poor circumstances. He is clearly remorseful and more than understanding of how to prevent this happening in the future.

Again, onto circumstances. Vutin was unable to know that he was out of earshot with yourselves. Hence, when it appeared people were taking up positions after what he believed had been good, clear initiation that to his knowledge had been heard, he took this combined with being ran up on as a direct threat to him, and acted accordingly.

Myself and all the other staff present in TS at the time of the discussion were more than happy that this was simply a combination of unfortunate circumstances and Arma sound being poor. We were also happy that Vutin knows exactly how to prevent something like this happening in the future.

I leave this here to the attending member of staff as a record of what has happened in teamspeak and our thoughts as those who mediated the discussion surrounding the situation.

I will not be commenting further and leave this to the involved parties and attending staff member.

Smith

 

[Mecidon]

The fact here compared to what was being said above is that we did infact NOT take positions or pull out weapons until AFTER he had shot James, and the fact that he shot James when he was walking up to him, completely out of cover, weapon down, and asking him what he said in a friendly voice should give you an idea that your initiation did infact not work, especially since he even asked what was said.

Since he shot James, even after that, is RDM, no matter what is said.

Apologising to get out of trouble doesn't always change things, a blatant mass RDM'er wouldn't get passed just by acting apologetic. It is entierly his responsibility to read the situation (like if we started acting hostile or not after his initiation), if he did it from too far away with too much background noise and we didn't hear, then that is obvious why, he simply needs to read all the factors in the situation and adjust his RP and initiation accordingly.

 

[Robbie]

Can Vutin and Mecidon come onto teamspeak and discuss this with me. Thank you. 

 

[Robbie]

Update,  we will be discussing on teamspeak with both parties tomorrow and we will be coming to a conclusion. Please when I and you 2 are on please msg me on ts and we will get in a chat. Thank you

 

[Robbie]

if anyone here is to make an example of anyone it's me, we don't play to ban people. Denied

(I will still be speaking to both parties when they are free.)