Report a Player - Oliver /Viserion - Other (Rejected)

[PapaSmurphy]

Your In-game name

PapaSmurphy

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

Oliver /Viserion

Date of the incident

09/15/2017

Time of the incident (GMT)

2350

What best describes this incident ?

Other

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

Hello, I am reporting Oliver/Viserion from the morrisons gang for calling myself and a fellow gang member a derogatory term.
The situation was simply that myself and @CST Alfred H were roleplaying and blood bagging a fellow player after a road traffic collision.

We had encountered the ‘Morrisons’ gang a few minutes earlier however there was no situation / issue at the time. Oliver jumped out of the sports hatchback, I’m not sure, and proceeded with the following statement - ‘ Oi you two faggots, oi you two, put your hands up’. Which as we know is a discriminatory / derogatory term used against homosexual people. I’m sure I do not have to explain what it means.

This breaks the following rule -

(1.2) Discrimination of any kind is punished by a permanent ban without appeal.


At the end of the day I personally do not take offence to the word to heart, however; that does not mean that I find it acceptable on this community. We all know and are very much aware that the gang ‘Morrisons’ are all a ‘police holiday’ gang, and as whitelisted faction members, most of whom are very high ranking, they definitely know the rules regarding the use of these terms, phrases, words.

Although I do not have any evidence of a previous incident, I was informed that a morrisons member did call another player ‘retarded’ however, I cannot confirm whether it was directed towards another Morrisons member, although that shouldn’t matter as regardless of who it was directed to, it is still not allowed in this community and at the end of the day is offensive. I do however understand that you will probably not take this into consideration and understandably as I cannot present to you any evidence / recordings.

I was messaged by Oliver on TS with the following -
<00:47:40> "[[TCK] PapaSmurphy] [TCK] PapaSmurphy [CI]": <23:54:59> "Oliver / Viserion": I sincerely didn't mean to say that, I'm Sorry. Heat of the moment
<23:55:59> "[TCK] PapaSmurphy [CI]": Embarrassing tbh
<23:564> "Oliver / Viserion": mhm

https://gyazo.com/502ea532eeaa1b7da229e571527762fa

The problem with this as I see it is this,
There was no heat of the moment in my eyes, we weren’t behaving in a suspicious manner, we were simply RPing, we did not even present any visible weapons, the previous situation was also similar, we were of no threat to their gang at any point, so I REFUSE to accept that any of this was in anyway due to the ‘heat of the moment’? This was definitely not a ‘heated moment’.

Oliver is an Inspector within the police, so he clearly knows the rules and is aware of the consequences. However, it is of my opinion that the members of this gang feel they can ‘get away’ shall we say with these sorts of things as they are often accompanied by staff members.
What I mean by this, is that DCC Coozer, AKA Challenger master yi, also a level 3 staff member and Morrison gang member was present. I feel that if that were myself or anyone out of ‘that group’ in this situation calling people ‘faggots’ we would most likely be reported or would be dealt with in the appropriate way.

You can also tell that Oliver wasn’t actually that bothered as you can clearly hear him trying not to laugh as he attempts a third initiation.
This isn’t the first time I have experienced some form of rule break within the Morrisons gang and so I feel that going to TS and having an hour long conversation with a string of excuses is not worth it. I feel it shall get nowhere and then these sorts of things shall continue to happen.
The community is so well structured and has many rules to stop these sorts of things from happening, however non seem to actually stop members of this gang from breaking these rules. Hence the immediate report approach.


I simply refuse to accept any excuse, I know that I will be given one or more in a reply to this but frankly I would rather leave this all the staff to decide, as I don’t find or feel there shall be any acceptable excuse. You can clearly see and hear DCC Coozer laughing about it quite hard in-game. Now do you honestly think if Oliver wasn’t his friend he would have the same approach? I think, and KNOW it wouldn’t. I wouldn’t get away with it, so I’m not going lightly on the situation. Its appalling is it not?
Staff members should not be bias, this a clear case of a staff member being bias, hence not speaking to anyone in TS.


I don’t think this should be ignored, as unfortunately this sort of thing can ruin RP servers and ultimately, offend someone..
They / Oliver wouldn’t do it when on duty, so why do it whilst on holiday?

Papasmurphy.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

http://plays.tv/video/59af3a0d8341088ba9/not-acceptable-oliver
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[Coozer]

HI friend, i do not appreciate you calling me "bias" yes i didn't ban him because it was a slip of the tongue people make mistakes and this is one of them. i didn't ban him however i did give him a warning that if it happened again it would be a ban he had his chance. I do not think that it is acceptable to use this type of language but like i have said it was a mistake he said sorry to you and you can tell in the video that he didn't mean it.

 

[Alfred]

Good morning,

I'm sure no likes to be called bias, however how else could be of looked at it?  You could of spoke to us in game and said that you would deal with it, you could of approached us in TS and said that you had dealt with it. No such action was taken therefore the blanks were filled. 

A slip of the tongue. He clearly thought about robbing us, his action were clearly premeditated (seen by the road being blocked off) he had time to think and go through what he was going to say. An excuse like it was a slip can not be used.

i didn't feel like he was sorry and with what he said sometimes a simple sorry isn't good enough. 

 

[Coozer]

You could of spoke to us in game and said that you would deal with it, you could of approached us in TS and said that you had dealt with it.

i didn't get a msg from any of you, how am i going to know that you wanted me to tell you that i gave him a warning? what he did was wrong however he didn't mean it and like i said it was a slip of the tongue if you don't want to listen to me then so be it.

i didn't feel like he was sorry and with what he said sometimes a simple sorry isn't good enough. 

So what is good enough in your opinion? he said sorry multiple time please let me know what more he could of done.

 

[Alfred]

[SIZE=10.5pt]First of all, Coozer I don't believe it’s our place to message YOU in this situation.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]You are the staff member in all of this and what makes it worse you just laugh like crazy in game, when it happens which to be frank is embarrassing.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]It would have been nice for you to drag us in a channel and explain, other than an brief message from Oliver and a very short conversation from M!kkel we had nothing. Under the same pretences we believed that you would approach us and explain these actions or explain what actions have been carried out to prevent this from happening again.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Within this ban appeal we have TomTheDoge replying to -[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]‘ -[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]  [/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] On 4/23/2017 at 7:04 PM,[/SIZE][SIZE=12pt] Casiey[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt] said:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]I used a homophobic word, accidentally[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]‘I seem to get this excuse quite a lot. How exactly does one "accidentally" use a word like "faggot"? I'm sure you mean to say that you didn't consider it to be offensive in spite of it being a discriminatory term?’[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Can you explain?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Now this @DCC Coozer, was an un-ban against another community member, who also called someone a faggot in the ‘heat of the moment’. As you can see, there was more done on his behalf to right this wrong than we can say for Oliver, and even though it clearly states that he apologized profusely, he was still banned. It seems that every staff member goes hard on people who come out with these terms or these ‘slip of the tongues' - So how is what Oliver did any different or acceptable for the matter?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Here is a screenshot of Actioned Reports [/SIZE][SIZE=12pt]http://prntscr.com/ghqbuy[/SIZE][SIZE=10.5pt]. Can i really believe a simple warning from your self was enough? When multiple less experienced players have received bans? Surely somebody who is fully aware of the consequences should not be treated any differently? [/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]And simply Coozer regarding what he could have done? He simply could have used his brain and just not have said it. This isn’t an accidental metagame it's accidentally calling somebody an offensive and derogatory term.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Now you wouldn’t accept somebody calling somebody a ‘N****r’ (I am not being racist this is entirely in context) in a slip of the tongue, would you? So why should something just as bad but related to Homosexuals be in anyway different, taking in consideration all the people who have had action taken for the same ‘mistake’?[/SIZE]

[SIZE=12pt] [/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]How as a member of this community could i allow someone to use statements like this and not report? The apology would've gone a long way to show remorse for what he said. Maybe helping him in future  after he had learned the appropriate lesson.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=10.5pt]Just in case you don’t realise the extent of this -[/SIZE]

[SIZE=15pt]noun, Slang.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]1.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Extremely Disparaging and Offensive. a contemptuous term used to refer to a male homosexual.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]2.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=11.5pt]Offensive. a contemptible or dislikable person.[/SIZE]

 

[Oliver]

Hello,

[SIZE=10.5pt]i’d like to apologise again for the slip of the tongue, I sincerely regret saying it from the moment I said it, as you can hear in the video I apologise straight after. Then I continue to find you on teamspeak and apologise again. I only messaged you from the situation as I only got your name the rest I didn’t see, So I’d like to apologise to the others involved. There's nothing much I can really say in my [/SIZE]defence[SIZE=10.5pt] as it shouldn’t have happened in the first place apart from apologise but clearly that isn’t enough, it’s clear what you want as the outcome of this report to be even though “Not being offended”. [/SIZE]

This will be my only comment.

Thanks,

 

[TomTheDoge]

This report bothers me somewhat. You don't appear to be able contain yourself from going on and on about how terrible the "Morrisons gang" are. This is a report against a singular player and it's not relevant what your opinion of his gang is. He stands alone and made his own choices here so regardless of your opinion of them and your insistence in pointing out other rulebreaks by different members as though it matters, this will be handled the same. For you to pull out the "staff member was biased" card you have to at least pretend to not be biased yourself.

Additionally, since you've attempted to use my words from 4 months against me, allow me to elaborate on them. I said this on an appeal in april.

I seem to get this excuse quite a lot. How exactly does one "accidentally" use a word like "faggot"? I'm sure you mean to say that you didn't consider it to be offensive in spite of it being a discriminatory term?

That's a damn good question. I continue to have no idea how one can "accidentally" do that. My opinion is important on an appeal because I am required to make a judgement of character rather than a judgement of whether it was a rulebreak or not. On a report, it is purely a judgement of the rules and context of them hence why my leading question isn't directly relevant to this report. The ban you are quoting from is actually very relevant though so I'll use it in my justification of my decision.



A ban was issued under rule 1.2 against Casiey that was not permanent due to a judgement of a lack of poor intent. I think that a lack of poor intent is also present here because Oliver literally doesn't even finish his sentence and stumbles over himself to correct his "mistake". So to apply it to the above report, in this case Aiden makes this comment.

I am not a fan of you not admitting what you did straight away, instead choosing to act innocent until you saw video evidence proving you did what you did, and then attempting to apologise your way out of it doesn't really sit right with me

The above reason is why the ban was issued, not solely because the rules were broken. I am at no point going to claim that what Oliver did isn't 100% a rulebreak (because it definitely is), but I would instead question what you guy's intent is here with this report? You get an immediate (as far as context shows me) apology and he clearly didn't mean it (by my judgement above). A lack of premeditation before a robbery isn't a sign of malice as much as a sign of incompetence but I don't think Oliver will mind me saying that given what he said himself. That's a bit different to what is described above correct? You then essentially refuse to discuss it with him because of your opinion of his gang.

This isn’t the first time I have experienced some form of rule break within the Morrisons gang and so I feel that going to TS and having an hour long conversation with a string of excuses is not worth it

I read this as "I don't like the gang so why bother allowing him to apologise. This isn't in the spirit of the community in any way, shape or form and appears a desperate attempt to "get back at" someone you don't really like. I don't think I'm being unreasonable here when presented with the evidence in front of me.

I simply refuse to accept any excuse

I will though. We have rules in place to enforce our idea of how the community should be and not to ban people left, right and centre. Those who demonstrate a lack of interest in following them will be dealt with swiftly but those people who (like in this case) are here for a long time and obviously didn't have poor intent when breaking a rule, reminding people to be mindful of their actions is much more prudent.

This is 100% a rulebreak but I am issuing Oliver with an official warning rather than a ban. Any future reports / incidents in a similar vein will not be pardoned and this will be considered in any other rule issues in the future. I question what sort of language you use privately if your automatic response if to default to that type of slur, but frankly if you can engage your brain before you open your mouth and keep it out of this community, I am not mandated to judge that.

Report Rejected - However, warning issued.

As an aside, I appear to be a staff lead so lets address the claim made against Coozer as well.

Please make complaints of staff bias directly to leads in future. This style of report (where you are reporting someone else) is no place for it and evidence can easily get muddled. In this case, Coozer's decision not to take immediate action with a ban is completely logical as they are friends and Coozer was in the situation himself. He is liable to be either too kind or too harsh given these circumstances and it could lead to an inconsistent decision being made. Allowing this to be resolved separately is exactly what I'd expect him to do. No action to be taken against Coozer.

If you have any concerns please don't hesitate to contact a staff lead.