Report a player - Oliver Johnson - GTA RP

[Haza]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Barry Douglas

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Oliver Johnson

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 02/17/22

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 21

What best describes this incident ?: RDM

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Vagos and Coalition were engaged in a shoot out at the coalition ranch. Police arrived soon after and began driving around the surrounding area and in between the 2 fighting groups. Instructions were given over radio to not shoot police as we have had bad experiences with them previously which has resulted in them shooting at us. No words were said from the police and we assumed they were waiting for us to leave so they could do their thing.

The police actively driving in the middle of the shots did feel a bit like baiting and that they were hoping to catch a bullet to get involved. We had downed Vagos members at the ranch and in order to leave the situation we had to get those members in vehicles. While this was been put into motion I was rammed and shot by the police vehicle at a point when there had been no gun fire at police and I had not and was still not posing a threat to police in my position.

We had a conversation in TeamSpeak with the officer in question but it did not come to a resolution for a number of reasons that I can summarise.

The officer believed that by shots coming in his direction this was a threat to his life and he was then able to get involved and shoot. Our reply to this was that he put himself in between the shooting and this cannot then be used as an excuse for engagement. In my eyes this is almost the definition of baiting. Shooting was already on going it did not begin because of the police and was not directed at the police.
We believed there was no sufficient role-play or efforts to detain anyone. The reply to this point was that the police were on scene for 10 minutes prior and had received verbal threats to leave the area. In response to this the officer believed this was an escalation from our side and warranted us being shot.

We questioned weather it would have been ok for us to shoot the police on scene in a similar fashion for not leaving and was told it would be poor Roleplay.
The overall impression I got from the TS call is that the police can decide when a situation has got to a point where they can shoot and they will even without roleplay however if a gang was to do the same this would be poor roleplay and reportable. In essence this just translates to, the police can shoot first but gangs cannot. This is just blatant win mentality.
We discussed the officer valuing his life but from the explanation given I got that idea that it’s his job to risk his life sometimes so this rule doesn’t always apply to them. This was confirmed when he said he would fancy his odds 4 officers vs 10 gang members as they have better training and gang members carry pistols.

The whole TeamSpeak conversation felt like excuses for the police to do what they want because they have polices and procedures to back up rule breaks but if it happens to them it is always an issue. We couldn’t agree in TS and so this report was made

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/bmkWlMCuOTCOK/d1337ot3odsg?invite=cr-MSxHREssMjA4MzYxMDcs



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[AlfredW]

Evening, 

First of all I'd like to mention the point that your video gives us 90 seconds out of a 20-minute scenario, and gives us one perspective out of more than 30 people involved, so lacks a lot of the context surrounding what led up to the shooting. 

There is nothing 'Random' about this shooting, with a short summary of the pretext being: 
Police had already been on scene for more than 10 minutes attempting to disperse this gunfight. During this time police had been berated with threats from the Vagos about not staying or getting involved, with firearms in their hands. Multiple police had been actively rammed by the Vagos in their vehicles, with gunfire whooshing over our heads non-stop. 

So with that background in mind, in the video, you have two Armed Response Vehicles pursuing your vehicle as you had just been seen shooting towards a Coalition vehicle at 1:15. That Coalition vehicle crashed and at 1:22 you shoot and kill the driver right in front of these five police officers. 7 seconds later I fire the first round from the police. It is a direct response to you killing a person in front of the police. (with the 10 minutes of build-up, threats and ramming as context - which the video fails to show)

The days of initiations for "friends and allies" are long gone with ArmA, for those who have their roots there, and what makes sense from the perspective of you role-playing as your character in the situation, and the context around it, is what we try to focus on. And as a police officer I have just witnessed a murder before my eyes and I genuinely fail to see how else I could have reasonably reacted. And of course, every attempt should be made to make these scenarios more interesting, but as I have mentioned before when we showed up here to do our job as police we were treated as hostiles immediately with threats guns in hand and ramming being the response from Vagos. What happened here is the response to those actions taken towards the police and by shooting someone in front of us, with no regard at all. 

Now if you guys were to do the same thing towards the Police when we are showing up to a gunfight and being aggressive towards you and making threats, I would not find that unreasonable. I would rather expect it. It is about if it makes sense in the given situation based on you playing your character, playing your role: role-playing. 

 

[Snuffles]

As it's a report for RDM, please provide 3-minutes prior to the situation @Haza

 

[Haza]

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Here's a full 5min clip - am writing up a reply will probably post tomorrow

 

[Haza]

"Police had already been on scene for more than 10 minutes attempting to disperse this gunfight. During this time police had been berated with threats from the Vagos about not staying or getting involved, with firearms in their hands. Multiple police had been actively rammed by the Vagos in their vehicles, with gunfire whooshing over our heads non-stop."
 

First of all there were no threats towards police of Violence. No guns were pointed and no one was actively rammed. You have just twisted the narrative to justify your actions. Police were asked to leave the area and not get involved. We didn't want to accidentally shoot police and neither did the Coalition so obviously we are going to ask you to leave. This was not coupled with us pointing guns at you so once again you are looking for a technicality based on the fact we had guns to justify your actions. Did we have guns? Yes, we are in an active gang shootout. Were they used to threaten police? No.

The polices efforts to "disperse" the vehicles in the shootout was to join in with the circling of the Coalition turf. No one was actively rammed but with police Zig-Zagging between Vagos vehicles when people are focused on looking at the building in the middle, collisions are going to happen. This isn't the fault of any Vagos member this is just police forcing themselves into a situation and again using it to justify future actions. Again, shots were whoosing over your heads because you decided to get in between 2 actively shooting gangs. Neither gang shot at you, you placed yourselves in this situation and used it to justify what followed.

"you shoot and kill the driver right in front of these five police officers. 7 seconds later I fire the first round from the police. It is a direct response to you killing a person in front of the police. (with the 10 minutes of build-up, threats and ramming as context - which the video fails to show)"

So your response to seeing a gang on gang shooting is to kill the surviving member on sight? How does that even make any sense? We have had no threats from police, no attempts to detain and hardly any words spoken.

The only excuse I have heard for the actions of the police is, well we have procedures in place. In game procedures do not trump server rules and the way the police acted is not only baiting but it is boarder line power gaming with the police forcing themselves into the situation and forcing RP onto us that we had no intention of being involved in.

 

[AlfredW]

First of all there were no threats towards police of Violence. No guns were pointed and no one was actively rammed.

This is objectively not true, and why I said your video is not sufficient to give context to the situation. There were threats, and there was deliberate ramming. As I said prior, there was absolutely nothing random about the shooting with 10 minutes of hostilities from the Vagos side prior. 

Police were asked to leave the area and not get involved. (...) this is just police forcing themselves into a situation and again using it to justify future actions.

We are playing on a serious British roleplaying server. If you do not want trouble with the police, avoid having 10+ minute long firefights in broad daylight. It would be nonsensical for the police not the get involved. You are not entitled to have a shootout uninterrupted. 

So your response to seeing a gang on gang shooting is to kill the surviving member on sight? How does that even make any sense? We have had no threats from police, no attempts to detain and hardly any words spoken.

Like I've said above, the way I go about roleplay, is doing just that, playing a role. In this case I am playing the role of a police officer. You are playing the role of a gang member. Other times I will be playing the role of a criminal business man, or a solicitor, and actions would have a different rationale to them. But here I am a police officer. And if you were to shoot someone in front of a British AFO the expectation would be that the police officer would shoot you. That is the logic applied here; you got shot, by me roleplaying. Roleplay is not only the words you say, it is every action you take as that character, when playing that role. So when you shoot someone mere meters away from police whom are pursuing you, a reasonable and expected roleplay outcome is for them to shoot you. The requirement for initiations, on behalf of friends and allies, is long gone with ArmA.

And if this came out of nowhere it would be a different story, but this is on the back of the 10 minutes buildup which I have already given context to.

"Play stupid games, win stupid prizes" is to me a summary of what happened here. If you are willing to take the risk of continuing to fire automatic firearms over the heads of police officers to hit the guy behind him, expect to be shot. The expectation for verbal roleplay is not reasonable when there is an massive ongoing firefight. We can't just stroll up to you and ask you to leave. That, if anything would be poor roleplay from the police officer, and a failure to value his life. With the circumstances in mind, as much roleplay as was possible was provided by both sides, which again your video fails to display the context of, and this was the outcome of the actions of everyone involved. 

I think the video you have provided speaks for itself and I hope we can now leave this for Staff to review.

 

[Charles Vane]

Not sure why this has taken so long to be handled and im not even sure why this has came to a report. Im not sure if i have really missed something here but after watching that video i have just watched you attempt to kill MULTIPLE people INFRONT of FIREARMS officers in the middle of what looks like an absolute warzone. 

The fact that everyone on vagos radio is questioning WHY police are there or WHY they are shooting seriously need your heads banging together. They are NOT another gang they are the police. The whole fact that you are still there and continuing this INFRONT of them makes you look even more silly for reporting this. Of course police are going to be there, of course police will shoot you if you are trying to murder others thats there job. 

There will be no action on this report and i think you all need to start playing in a more realistic way. 

 

[Charles Vane]

Thank you for your report, Unfortunately, it has been declined

The staff member will advise shortly why on this occasion they have declined to take action against the reported player.

Please do not let this put you off making further reports in the future, We rely on our player base to help keep our community clean.