Report a Player - [LOV] gricey and [AIA] Mattt Ajazuri - Poor/Low Quality RP

[MAMBA]

Your In-game name

MAMBAMAMBA

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

[LOV] gricey and [AIA] Mattt Ajazuri

Date of the incident

04/02/2016

Time of the incident (GMT)

1207

What best describes this incident ?

Poor/Low Quality RP/ Provoking 

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 1

Please (in detail) describe the incident

This afternoon I was on my way to the iron mine with my Tempest device. When I arrived at the iron mine an SUV tried to blocked  my way out. But  i could still drive away after that  he kept following me without any kind roll play .Then i asked the help of a friend (Vincent) because i knew he was armed because he was a rebel. when he was there.I got out of my truck as the same time  Matt came out of the SUV armed whit a big gun and wanted to know what gang i was from, because I did not trust him, I asked him to put his hands up and told him that i have a guy laying some where whit a gun .He was cooperative ,after that  I've asked him to lay all his gear on the ground , and he asked for a warning shot. Before he puts his gear on the ground he wanted a warning shot. When Vincent gave the warning shot immediately he received shots from Gricey, so (Vincent) shot Matt dead because it was now a fire fight and after that he got killed and  i picked up Matt's gun and i got killed.

We talked on Teamspeak to explain are point of  view and they where repeating that they didn't nothing wrong.
 

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYS3NI6bsM0

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This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[Greasy]

First of all, you and your friend along with me and Mattt spoke to @Fuel and @Daanish if you remember?

What was said in that conversation? Do you remember? If you did then why make a report?

We came to a conclusion that no rules were broken, and we all went our own ways with no worries (Fuel did say that the roleplay was rather low, but not to a bannable extent). You said you would get the video up and send it to us (I have not had that yet).

Now, may I add, why would you hobo initiate? You were told that it was fail roleplay, yet you report us for fail roleplay also, as well as shooting a man with his hands up?

At the end of the day, it is miss communication as Mattt had his hands up and I couldn't hear him, just saw shots being fired his way.

 

[Majazuri]

After discussing with fuel and daanish in ts, they agreed the roleplay on both sides was shitty, but not to a bannable extent. From griceys POV however, he could just see shots being fired, assuming i was taking shots so he took action. Lethal initiation did occurr, and we were fully authorised to shoot. As i was told to 'put my hands up in five seconds or im dead', i couldnt communicate through teamspeak with gricey, so he wasnt 100% clear on what was going on.

After gricey opened fire, i took a shot to the head and was killed, whilst complying, and stood with my hands above my head. As mentioned by fuel, the roleplay was poor on both sides, but the lack of time given for me to respond, made it hard to assess the situation, and give clear communications, causing this situation to occur.

 

[Vincent_Hanna]

The only thing we agreed, was that we disagreed. Staf gave us the advice to upload the video and then talk again one on one. So Mambamamba talked to Matt, and showed him the video. Matt was still convinced that he was right. That's the reason that this report is made. 

By the way, there is no rule that says, that you can't initiate without a gun. 

P.S. The reason that I respond, is because I was part of this situation. 

 

[Fuel]

First of all, you and your friend along with me and Mattt spoke to @Fuel and @Daanish if you remember?

What was said in that conversation? Do you remember? If you did then why make a report?

We came to a conclusion that no rules were broken, and we all went our own ways with no worries (Fuel did say that the roleplay was rather low, but not to a bannable extent). You said you would get the video up and send it to us (I have not had that yet).

Now, may I add, why would you hobo initiate? You were told that it was fail roleplay, yet you report us for fail roleplay also, as well as shooting a man with his hands up?

At the end of the day, it is miss communication as Mattt had his hands up and I couldn't hear him, just saw shots being fired his way.

as i have been quoted i would like to comment, i never said it was not bannable, what i said was it is not baiting and not rdm, it would be put down to fail rp, and the staff member dealing with it, would go down to how he sees it, and I will qoute one of the reporters group "we are not looking to get any one banned", I told you that we are here to try and help resolve it, but the video had not been uploaded yet, I told you to upload the video and one person from each group have a chat and resolve it, I never once said it was not bannable, and their was supposed to be a second chat to try and resolve it.

 

[MAMBA]

i uploaded the video's. i send Matt the video's and after a while i asked him if  he still thinks  that he and gricey did nothing wrong. and he said yes. That's the reason why its now on the forum. and again this is not a report to get some one banned its a report so the roll play will be better next time.

the small chat i had whit matt : http://imgur.com/BhvPtqD

best regards.

MAMBA

 

[Daanish]

As I too have been mentioned, I will comment also, but I can't add much more than Fuel.

Firstly, when we discussed, there was no video and we all came to the conclusion that there could have been better RP from both sides. For example, Mamba could have gone in armed / not been a "hobo" negotiator. Secondly Gricey could have issued some form of compliance. We also agreed that it was not RDM as they were playing together, and so Gricey had every right to protect his friend. 

Secondly, the video is very short. It doesn't show him following you like you initially said, and so reporting for baiting is out of the question. In terms of RDM, as said above, we all agreed that it was not RDM. However, as fuel said, the fail RP rule comes to admin discretion, so I can't comment on that.

Finally, as fuel said above, I remember both Mamba and Vincent both said that they were not interested in reporting Gricey and Matt, but instead just wanted to talk about it. Fuel suggested that once the video is up that you should talk again about it, but I see that that didn't go down well, for some reason.

~Daanish

 

[Vincent_Hanna]

As I too have been mentioned, I will comment also, but I can't add much more than Fuel.

Firstly, when we discussed, there was no video and we all came to the conclusion that there could have been better RP from both sides. For example, Mamba could have gone in armed / not been a "hobo" negotiator. Secondly Gricey could have issued some form of compliance. We also agreed that it was not RDM as they were playing together, and so Gricey had every right to protect his friend. 

Secondly, the video is very short. It doesn't show him following you like you initially said, and so reporting for baiting is out of the question. In terms of RDM, as said above, we all agreed that it was not RDM. However, as fuel said, the fail RP rule comes to admin discretion, so I can't comment on that.

Finally, as fuel said above, I remember both Mamba and Vincent both said that they were not interested in reporting Gricey and Matt, but instead just wanted to talk about it. Fuel suggested that once the video is up that you should talk again about it, but I see that that didn't go down well, for some reason.

~Daanish

Firstly, We didn't came to any conclusion wile we have a discussion. Only that you or Fuel said, that you can't initiate as a hobo without firearms. Mamba and I tried to explain, that this was a different situation and not about robbing people. But about provoking, bad RP and baiting. 

Secondly, we have a longer video if needed, we can provide. But is only Matt driving around Mamba and try to provoke him, like the beginning of mamba's video.

Finaly, we never said that we don't wanna bring this to the forum. Only that we never have the intentions to get somebody banned. Like Mamba said "to the roleplay would be better next time".

The main reason for a repost is that the community learns from it, and so we all have more RP on the server instead of chasing, baiting and shooting.

 

[Greasy]

The only thing we agreed, was that we disagreed. Staf gave us the advice to upload the video and then talk again one on one. So Mambamamba talked to Matt, and showed him the video. Matt was still convinced that he was right. That's the reason that this report is made. 

By the way, there is no rule that says, that you can't initiate without a gun. 

P.S. The reason that I respond, is because I was part of this situation. 

I did apologize for the poor roleplay and said that I would improve it next time.

I have to admit though, you need to stop accusing us of 'baiting' just because we drove around you a few times to see if you had anything valuable of robbing.

The longer video isn't exactly needed unless anyone else wants to see it, as from our perspective, driving around someone just to take a look is not provoking / baiting you.

Next time I will tell Mattt to initiate on you so that it is a fair fight, as for your side, try to resist the instant "hands up now or you'll be shot" as it can come across as rushing the roleplay (Mattt is a nice guy, he would have introduced him self and asked what you were doing).

 

[Daanish]

Firstly, We didn't came to any conclusion wile we have a discussion. Only that you or Fuel said, that you can't initiate as a hobo without firearms. Mamba and I tried to explain, that this was a different situation and not about robbing people. But about provoking, bad RP and baiting. 

Secondly, we have a longer video if needed, we can provide. But is only Matt driving around Mamba and try to provoke him, like the beginning of mamba's video.

Finaly, we never said that we don't wanna bring this to the forum. Only that we never have the intentions to get somebody banned. Like Mamba said "to the roleplay would be better next time".

The main reason for a repost is that the community learns from it, and so we all have more RP on the server instead of chasing, baiting and shooting.

From what was discussed, I was under the impression that a decision had been reached, but I must ha e been mistaken.

The longer video will be needed if you are trying to report them for baiting, and will most likely be needed anyway. 

If you don't have any intentions of banning someone, then there is no point in making a report. It just creates more work for the staff team and is not needed. I don't feel that the community will be learning much from this report. 

I won't reply to this anymore as it's not needed, and will probably just be making more posts for the staff member dealing with this to read through

 

[Crumble]

Locking pending review

 

[Khandamir]

Should have gotten back to this sooner, but real life and other stuff took over. I am coming to a decision regarding this matter.

The issue I am having with this is that lethal force was used by the LOV/AiA side, without any form of initiation or declaring themselves. The person with his hands up is being asked to drop his gear, while his hands are up. He asks for a warning shot, which is given. The response to the warning shot is a aimed gunfire at the person giving the warning shot.

If it is true the person shooting had no way of knowing what happened and only saw his friends with his hands up and heard a shot being fired, it is up to him to make sure he follows procedures and doesn't just shoot as response. In all fairness, waiting for 3 seconds longer would have made it clear his friends live was not at risk.

If the person with his hands up knew he had a friend in the area, he should have warned about that, used it to his advantage to the guys telling him to put his hands up. By simply saying: ''I've got some backup and they will be worried if they don't hear from me, I don't want this to end badly, let me tell them it's okay '', the heat could have been taken off, while at the same time the chances would increase for all sides to just walk away from the tension.

What happened is unacceptable. If you are playing together and one of you gets hold up and then asks for a warning shot, in no way is it appropriate to answer to that by shooting, directly, at the guy giving the warning shot. Especially not without any warning or initiation from your side.

The sniper from AHR side responded to his life being threathened by shooting at the hostage, then gets killed. From their side, compliance was issued to the person with his hands up and compliance was failed to meet as soon as shots were fired. Killing the hostage was not a tactical thing to do, seeing as his own life was in imminent danger, but it is not against any rules.

Then the person holding the hostage up gets killed as well as soon as he picks up the weapon. The shots at the sniper were uncalled for, as there was no initiation on him. The shots at the guy picking up the gun are understandable from a certain perspective (him becoming a possible threat), but they follow after a situation in which shots should not have been fired. Therefore the lethal action against this player was also uncalled for. At any point in this scenario, even after the AHR sniper and the guy with his hands up were already dead, you could and should have used a position of cover to make your presence known, to calm down the situation and increased the chance for both sides to walk away.

My call:

A ban will be issued on LOV Gricey for RDM. You acted in a hurry and your actions were to hostile for the situation at hand. You should have used restraint and remembered the following:

[SIZE= medium][COLOR= #6b29ee](7.1.4)[/COLOR] Killing someone must be carried out with high roleplay, put your hands up or I will shoot etc is considered low RP and may lead to a ban for RDM.[/SIZE]

[SIZE= medium][COLOR= #6b29ee](2.2)[/COLOR] RDM - Random Death Match Definition: Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban) [/SIZE]

I do not consider this high roleplay. You lurked in a bush and at the first shot you hear, decide to use lethal force on anyone in the situation that is not on your side. If the shot fired was indeed a hostile one, this response would be appropriate. However, you decided to kill people based on a very limited understanding of the situation at hand. There was no initiation from your side, no chance given to comply with any orders, just pure aggression.

Any charges against Mattt Ajazuri are rejected.

To AHR I say the following:

I bloody hate countdowns and consider them very horrible RP. Just putting that out there. Also, to the AHR sniper. If your life is under imminent threat, don't waste time killing a hostage, get in cover and take out the real threat. No rules broken there, just borderline fail RP which I would like to see improved.

Approved and action taken, 08-04-2016

This decision has been made after enquiring multiple staff members about their view on the situation