Report a player - ID 460 - GTA RP

[DJ Marz]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Marz Omar

Name of the player(s) you are reporting: ID 460

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 04/25/21

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 100

What best describes this incident ?: FailRP, FearRP

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Myself plus 3 others had ziptied an officer at MRPD plus pointed a gun at a solicitor in the car park outside in an attempt to negotiate a hostage exchange with some crew members who were about to be transported to prison.

There was a single Trojan officer on site. He knew what was going on and could be seen clearly at the doors twice, which means that he heard our guys calling him out.

We wanted a scenario of a simple (and possibly funny) hostage exchange as the solicitor was in on it.

The Trojan instead decided to:

1. Run all the way up onto the roof of MRPD
2. Not say a word
3. Start spraying us all down with a rifle

He obviously knew what was happening, or else there would've been no reason at all for him to shoot.

I didn't fire a single shot, yet he kept on shooting and shooting.

In that situation, I would've expected them to play out the scenario and value the life of the 2 hostages we had taken.

Furthermore, the incident resulted in my firearm being taken off me after I was revived and arrested - a situation which MIGHT not have happened had the Trojan just carried out effective roleplay.

Whilst I get that RP doesn't always go the way you want, this situation didn't have to result in me having to earn another £100k+ in-game to recover from the loss.

I tried reaching out to the person in question via discord with no reply as of yet, hence the report is now being submitted so as to enhance RP in future situations. I would, however like compensation for the lost firearm.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):
https://drive.google.com/file/d/13z07q6OrjrbvmYnxCWhtIUxRTITVQCCB/view?usp=sharing
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

Time was approx 1am and lasted a long time due to processing taking ages (apologies for writing 100 before)

2nd video link in the prison with solicitor (who also verified that the Trojan was not being cooperative in the main incident before) - https://drive.google.com/file/d/18f5Pr2sckpZWdzWkm9PRa3_ws_bb-stq/view?usp=sharing

 

[Antollyme]

I apologise about not responding to you in discord. I am quite busy as of recent and have not been present on Discord/TeamSpeak/in-game the last few days. The incident in question was brought up in a liaison room roughly 20-30 mins after the incident had occurred. In this liaison room I spoke with three individuals. I explained my perspective to them along with why I did what I did. The liaison came to a resolve. I'm unsure why you have waited as long as you have to place this report, as in that timeframe you could of spoken with those that did come to liaison to speak to me to "understand my perspective" as requested in the DM, as they claimed they were friends with all those involved. 

This particular report will be dealt with by a Staff lead as I, a staff member am the reported party.

The incident in question was part of a prolonged roleplay situation and revolved around your friends (unsure if you were involved) breaking into the police station and randomly attacking me. This situation was a very long one. After spending the 1 or so hours in the processing cells dealing with those involved, I began the process of doing a transport to the prison. I enlisted a member of RPU to watch over the car whilst I did the heavy lifting. In this time unbeknownst to me, you were in cahoots with the solicitor to take him hostage, which seems very poor to me and rather unrealistic of a solicitors roleplay story. After you had concocted your plan I was in the process of bringing the last prisoner out to the car. It was at this point that I heard someone threaten the police officer that he was going to die if he didn't comply. I immediately brought the prisoner back inside to the cells where I left him there. The last thing I heard from anyone outside the police station was "trojans coming". I made my way to the roof immediately to get an overview of the situation and understand how many were involved at the situation. Bare in mind that all of this was occurring at a very late time GMT and myself and the other officer were the only cops online. Prior to him coming online at around 1am I was the only cop online since 10pm. This limited me greatly on the roleplay prospects that could unfold on the server as those around me kept constantly taking advantage of the miniscule amount of police presents. 

My intentions once at the roof were to analyse the situation and attempt to make contact, however, once I got to the roof, one of those involved was running away with the police officer on the bridge directly above were the carpark was. This prompted me to shoot that male as he was isolated from the rest of those at the situation, in a clear and open area and in that moment I determined the officers life was at an immediate risk and I could neutralise said risk. This was mainly done as prior to the individual running away with the police officer, I had not heard any attempt to negotiate for the officers life and this individual was B lining for a car to try leave. I had spoke about this with those in liaison and we came to an understanding that I did not hear anything they had said after I went back into the police station. We had both agreed that If I had of heard the request of you asking If I could hear you, I would have engaged in negotiations that wouldn't of led to the officer been taken away and no-one being shot.

The particular thing I feel you might be annoyed/frustrated with is the situation revolving around the solicitor. From the roof top I can barely see under that lip. So for me, the solicitor was not in view. I shoot just before 2 minutes in your video and the a couple seconds after that I looked in that closed parking area. This is were I saw you, not pointing a gun at anyone but gun in hand. I deemed you to be a threat and shot you. I get you would be annoyed however after looking at the evidence you provided its concerning that you would even consider that avenue of roleplay considering he was offering to be taken hostage and within common sense, why on earth would they do that. Just a bit poor. 

The things you're reporting me for are Fail RP and Fear RP, both of which are not rules. Common sense is however a rule. In this situation I applied my common sense to attempt to neutralize a hostile situation at a police station.. This specific situation was exactly that, hostile. You are willingly putting your self in a hostile situation were you are pulling guns out on police officers at a police station. Something witch is mental to do in the first place. This is something that was understood in liaison that you don't need initiation on the server. You need to use common sense, roleplay and the understanding that when hostile intentions are involved, there is the potential of being injured or worse killed. I would expect nothing less than you being shot if you came to a police station with a gun with hostile intentions. 

Shortly after that specific incident the police station was attacked twice. Once by a random man who stabbed the RPU with a knife for no reason, and a man that snuck into the police station and hid with a machete and randomly attacked myself. All of these situations happened within the space of two hours with 2 police officers online and very difficult to deal with them all. I personally feel that in these situations, I didn't do anything against server rules and as discussed in the liaison, simply unfortunate. All those in the liaison agreed that the situation could of had a better outcome after a long discussion but unfortunately didn't and was left there. 

 

[Bobinz]

Hi there, let me start by saying I was that civi on the repair truck you killed at 2:54 that can be seen on the first video.
So I will try hard to not be bias at all.

 It was at this point that I heard someone threaten the police officer that he was going to die if he didn't comply. 

So you heared a fellow police officer will die if you don't comply, yet you decided to put the fellow officers life in danger by leaving him there alone. In my perspective your decision in going to the roof was to do a superhero move ( like it ended happening).  

My intentions once at the roof were to analyse the situation and attempt to make contact

Besides the part from attempting contact from the roof ( which seems unrealistic to me, because of distance, wind etc ), I understand your perspective, but I still do think this is more like a movie play then it is reality. 

 

one of those involved was running away with the police officer on the bridge directly above were the carpark was. This prompted me to shoot that male as he was isolated from the rest of those at the situation, in a clear and open area and in that moment I determined the officers life was at an immediate risk and I could neutralise said risk. 

You knew a police officer life was on the line if you don't comply. You even noticed that the individual "was running away with the police officer" ( your words), yet you decide to shot this individual with no reggards in putting the officers life in even more danger. - For me a superhero move. What would happen if you would kill the officer by mistake?
 

I had not heard any attempt to negotiate for the officers life and this individual was B lining for a car to try leave

You decided to go to the roof, in my perspective you cut out any chances of a possible negotiation after that point. You even said it yourself, your intentions were to attempt contact, but the opportunity of a shot, that you took, closed any door for possible negotiations.
 

Common sense is however a rule. In this situation I applied my common sense to attempt to neutralize a hostile situation at a police station.

Common sense is indeed a rule, but it goes both ways. You heared the police officer would die IF you dont comply. So, which life did you chose to put in danger there?

(G2.5) Compliance - If someone complies with your demands you may not kill them, unless they were involved in an illegal transaction. (Sale of drugs/weapons/dirty cash)

You are willingly putting your self in a hostile situation were you are pulling guns out on police officers at a police station. Something witch is mental to do in the first place

They knew the risks they were taking, as well as the people that riot in high securty prisons, or those that run away from the police. They always know what can happen, even in real life you cannot shot someone just because you have a gun. You saw that an officer was being taken and without fully analysing the full situation ( since you had no clue about the solicitor) you decided to escalate this. Again, you put more people in danger then those that were actually in danger. Still, there is another rule here in play.

(G2.4) Value of Life - At all times you are to value your life, if you are clearly outnumbered or at an obvious disadvantage you should comply with demands.

You said it yourself, you were clearly outnumber and clearly in an obvious disadvantage and you knew it.


Finally from my perspective.
I arrived to this city like 2-3 days ago, so I wasn't aware that if i join a situation ( even without knowing ) it would be like i am taking sides - that said, i understand why you were ABLE to shot me. I said able, not should.
I was at that exactly moment passing by, trying to get a car to take it to the impound yard, where I face a situation like that, were I see a guy lying on the floor dying and a police officer in zipties. My first instint was to get the guy bleeding out into the car to take him to the Hospital. - I did NOT expect that i would be able to carry both players at the same time. Yet again, with no reggard of the officer life you shot and killed me while I was near the car. Please check the video and count how many bullets you fired to kill a guy with no bulletproof vest, check how many bullets you missed and think how many bullets could have landed on the wrong target ( meaning the other officer). Of course I was pissed, no one likes to die. Some minutes after you went there, helped the officer and LEFT me there to die, I though the job from the police was to protect and serve and that justice should be blind YET, the life of a living person was more important because he was wearing blue then some one not wearing blue. Yet I get it, I though you were comming back.. but.. why would you? I got saved by the solicitor, he took me to the hospital, after recovering, i returned to the police station AND THIS WHOLE TIME you were doing paper work. Where is the common sense? Where is the protect and serve? I was dead, which kind of treath was I to you dead? This is what pissed me off the most. Paperwork and the life of something breathing ( even after everythign was neutralized) was more important then getting help for those in need. I couldn'T even get your name and ID number, I waited there realisticly 1 hour, one hour in real life for nothing, the member of NHS ended up getting me your number on radio.

I did survived, so I am allowed to remember that experience, which in someway is kinda sad. Yet in my opinion, I hold no grudge, we all are humans and we all take decisions everyday, some good and some bad and that is part of life, the question is: Would you act the same if the same happens?

 

[Antollyme]

Like I have stated, I can understand that there is frustration in play. Those attempting to gain something didn't and lost out. To be very clear, you are frustrated that you were shot and injured and you feel you shouldn't have. You quote me the value of life rule however that rule is very specific in regards to your own life, not others. I am in no disadvantage when residing inside the police station. A fully maned and armed police station that would be guarded 24/4 by staff and police as touched on in (G8.6). As I also stated, the men in question threatened the officer they had hostage, not myself. As discussed in the liaison room that If I had heard any contact in regards to demands such as the cop will die if I don't do as they say I would have immediately started negotiations. Instead I took the standpoint that all they wanted was for the cop to take the men out of the car, uncuff them and leave. In direct reference to that rule, you did not follow that rule. My entire agenda was that police officers life. You chose to pick up a criminal known or not, where shots where being fired that you were more than capable of seeing/hearing. In this situation you shouldn't of been there period. You chose to endanger your own life in something you had no reason to. When it came down to the decision to shoot you, it was not a lightly made one. I dumped multiple magazines of 5.56 rounds into the three tyres I could see from the roof top and then finally two mags into the engine block before you place the men inside your truck. You still unbelievably to me, chose to place the man in your car and proceed to try get away. This entire time the police officer, out of your control was attached to him. This is something you were aware of prior to getting to the truck. Common sense would tell me that you don't move an injured man with a police officer lying on him in an active firefight that you have no involvement in as a civil tow truck driver but its your right to do so if YOU wanted to play the "hero" as you put it.

You suggest that I merely left those there that I shot to die. This isn't the case and you also know that. I immediately after deeming it safe for me to come down off the roof, went and kitted up in full SFO police gear went to get the police officer back inside and to safety. Like I said he was more important to me than those attempting to kill me or him. Once I established the police officer was safe, I went back for yourself. This is where I was met with you, not acting injured, frustrated as to why you were shot and upset and being taken away to the hospital by a disgruntled solicitor who was in on the entire situation and refused to allow me to bring you inside to get medical care. After shot, apparently those on the bridge immediately broke character and started complaining according to the RPU who was taken hostage which suggests that you might also have been in cahoots with the situation but I have no proof to back it.

In regards to your comments on my conduct of playing the "hero", all these things are not considered server rule breaks. These such things are things to be discussed in-game over a police enquiry of misconduct. If believed that I did not act in accordance to police firearms procedures or potentially "murdered" someone, I am to be potentially reprimanded, fired, or charged criminally. There is a reason why there is an in depth criminal justice system in place on the server. Its to hold people accountable. 

To make it very clear as stated in the liaison room where it came to a conclude, if more officers were available, the situation would have been even better for all parties. A swarm of police would of turned up to the situation. If the situation had of ended badly, every single individual shot would of had an officer presiding over them giving them immediate medical treatment. The entire road would have been closed off. But I am a keen advocate that people, police included on the server should not be abused, pushed around or taken advantage of simply because there is not enough police on the server at the time. I worked with what I had to try get that officer back. If my conduct in doing so wasn't up to pair for police procedures, then Specialist Firearms Officer Erik Toll, should be reported to the police complaints commission stationed at Mission Row Police Station. 

Just to point out. Waiting for something is a compulsory part of roleplay. I can't unfortunately feel any justification for your upset over the fact that a police officer dealing with a massive incident and after shooting people had to roleplay the situation out and complete all the necessary requirements that is a lengthy process for an average police officer, took a long period of time. Once I heard over the radio that I was requested I immediately informed the NHS member that was enquiring of my name and rank within the LSPS and instructed him to give it to those that wanted.

To allude your final question, that exact question is to be made in game under the scrutiny of police or magistrate. 

 

[Bobinz]

Once I established the police officer was safe, I went back for yourself. This is where I was met with you, not acting injured, frustrated as to why you were shot and upset and being taken away to the hospital by a disgruntled solicitor who was in on the entire situation and refused to allow me to bring you inside to get medical care. After shot, apparently those on the bridge immediately broke character and started complaining according to the RPU who was taken hostage which suggests that you might also have been in cahoots with the situation but I have no proof to back it.

It is to me a bit hilarious that I would accept help from the police officer that shot me down when I have another option. So was I breaking character by thinking that way and complaining? You don't need to prove, I am saying here i was complaining to you, the guy that shot me, not acting injured, yes that is true, but I didnt feel safe with you officer, so it is normal I didnt want you to touch me. Think a bit about that.

EDIT: Yeah, I completly forgot you went back to me after. It took you a while, but you went back.(my bad there)  

As discussed in the liaison room that If I had heard any contact in regards to demands such as the cop will die if I don't do as they say I would have immediately started negotiations.

For me, this is the argument you are trying to build here. Because you already said 
 

It was at this point that I heard someone threaten the police officer that he was going to die if he didn't comply.

So in my opinion, this is a matter of perspective..or even better.. words to say the same. Meanig you were aware BUT you weren't told.. 

 

 and then finally two mags into the engine block before you place the men inside your truck

Sadly you remember it as well as I do, which is incorrect. If you check the Video you shot the engine the  After those 2 were inside and I started running to the driver seat.


 

you have no involvement in as a civil tow truck driver but its your right to do so if YOU wanted to play the "hero" as you put it.

just to make this clear, i am not the one being judge here. And like i said,I understand why you were able and in the right to shot me - at the moment i did not.



 

 If believed that I did not act in accordance to police firearms procedures or potentially "murdered" someone, I am to be potentially reprimanded, fired, or charged criminally. There is a reason why there is an in depth criminal justice system in place on the server. Its to hold people accountable. 

In my opinion you are refering to the  in-game consequences of some acts, that possible are against the rules. 
If the rules were broken ( not saying they were ) "Administrative leave" is not the answer  

 if more officers were available,

If more officers were available, probably it would had happen in the first place. People plan/chose when to do certain things. If more police officers would have been there probably the strategy would have been different, this always have 2 sides. I do still agree with you tho, that those "opportunities" shouldn't be abused. 



Still man, there is no bad blood from me. I am new here and I am still learning the curves. in 3 days already got kidnaped, burned alive ( saw fotos of myself on tweedle ) and there was nice RP around. There were also moment when 2 guys with knife come to me ask me if i have something value with me and without even giving me time to answer start stabbing me, not so good RP. 
We are all here to have fun  

 

[Antollyme]

I understand you may of had some bad run ins and some good ones. I do believe that is an issue and I personally feel it is a detrimental issue, however I have a zero tolerance police for people getting involved in police situation when they shouldn't as that ALWAYS has a bad outcome. Constable Erik Toll is a character who has presided in the police service for over a year now. Been the rank of Insp. and the in between. He is a very crude police officer and says things how they are. Its something I hope helps you understand that roleplay is a massive endeavour on this server when you join it. I've not suggested SFO Erik Toll's punishment for any potential wrong doing, simply the possibility.  Unfortunately you along with me will always be "Judged" especially when it comes to report a player. All those involved are looked at for potential wrong doing, not just the accused.

This is becoming a battle of attrition and I feel should come to an end. I would like to reinforce that I "resolved" any issues that were raised in the police liaison channel. I agreed that the situation could have gone better along with those there who understood and agreed with my perspective. 

I'll leave it up to the Leads to decide my faith. 

 

[Nuclear]

As stated by Antollyme a report on a staff member will be dealt with by Staff Leads, going to tag them here to make sure they know of this report: @Stavik @Drew @Gordon

 

[Stavik]

What i will question here is mainly just one thing only.

The group of people is trying to take someone hostage at what can only be presumed to be a very heavily staffed and armed Police Station. 
Who in their right mind would do this?  Any sensible person would understand that there will be some kind of reaction.
Being a criminal doing "criminal" things will be to some degree be dangerous at a Police Station, it's not really a place to mess around.

As it stands, we do not see anything more than the natural escalation of roleplay. This of course is based of the context of the situation and evidence provided and i think it is important for everyone to remember that context is very important in these cases. So there might be a similar case in the future but with a different set of stories and context behind it.

Based of this, Report is declined.


I think maybe the courts or a complaints would have a field day with this one and people should use the roleplay for this in the future.
 

 

[Stavik]

Thank you for your report, Unfortunately, it has been declined

The staff member will advise shortly why on this occasion they have declined to take action against the reported player.

Please do not let this put you off making further reports in the future, We rely on our player base to help keep our community clean.