Report a player - Firearms at Ballas turf - GTA RP

[PJ Adams]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: PJ Adams

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Firearms at Ballas turf

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 09/13/23

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 2130

What best describes this incident ?: Baiting, Common sense, Mass RDM

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Ballas have been at war with Hustlers now coming along to 2 weeks now in game. Tonight has been the worst I've ever seen firearms on the server to be honest. We had Hustlers circling Ballas for around 30 minutes before police show up and intervene. I was told at the Liaison that Stuart set up a intervention in order to capture 2 Ballas members that he said were 'on their own' whilst they were on ballas turf surrounded by 20 Ballas.

During the Liaison a Firearms officer also said that he's sick of being a combat medic whilst in these scenarios and feels the need to get involved. Now, I understand police have a duty on the server but tonight has been the worst thing I've witnessed in a long time. If this were the other way round and a gang had pushed onto a 'fully manned police station' Ballas would all be getting banned for common sense. I feel that the standards of rp from firearms have dropped massively recently and has been spoken about in gang leads but nothing has been done. This is constant now. I wasn't able to clip much of the scenario as I called someone out in OOC for baiting and was kicked for G2.6 for some reason? Honestly, I thought that was what OOC is meant for to call people to a liaison but that's not the main issue. Before I was kicked out of the server, firearms had pushed onto Ballas turf knowing we had at least 20 logged on at the time, all with guns ready to fight Hustlers, which were still on Ballas turf at the time.

Once Firearms had baited this mass gunfight initially, we had to defend ourselves and leave Ballas due to the excess of firearms. After we left, I had told firearms officers they had caused enough trouble already and that they had to leave. After this, along with another few Ballas members, I was killed by the Blackhawk sniper without any prior rp from police.

Videos to be added once I get it all from our members.

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1tRKSvaRE6Ltcl/d1337nShLHCO?invite=cr-MSxDcHosMjc2MjM3ODAs

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):

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This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[Stuart Barker]

Good evening PJ,

I was leading the charge from the firearms side, I would like to clarify some things for staff for the benefit of this report. First thing is first, firearms mobilised the MRAP, 99 with a CT sniper on the side, and approx. 6-8 boots on the ground CT's with AFO's. This was in reaction to another shootout between Ballas and Hustlers in the middle of the city, in which units on the ground worked with the 99 pilot to assess the situation and spot out people on their own, 2 Ballas were seen on a roof to the west of the turf compound, units moved up to conduct an armed intervention on them, to which they ran away to another compound further west. While inside it can be seen HERE that there were two Ballas, believed to be the ones previously on the roof on the stairs, officers then move in to that compound to try and detain those involved. Those inside the compound then levelled their guns at police and attempted to engage them, this is when officers fire back. Downing those two individuals, this is when more Ballas are seen entering the compound from the roof to engage those police inside. So to clarify to the claims of RDM, we were engaged first in this encounter to which we responded.

To clear up the baiting claim, it is expected that police will do their job, while there is a rule about the police station being fully manned at all times, and that could pass over to include gang turfs as well, however it is not disclosed in the rule to be as such. However regardless of this rule, we are here to police and as the firearms division we are here to combat gun crime, I think it is unrealistic that the current attitude is that police will not get involved to stop gang members having a shootout in the middle of the city for whatever reason, and the way we combat that is to get in the middle of it with numbers and assets to try ensure our safety, and try pick people separated to confront, as we are not an armed militia and will not go round shooting everyone, hence the reason for us contesting those separated in an enclosed area with good number compared to those directly around them. If you consider police trying to do their job to be baiting then I do not know what to tell you. And to add into the "he's sick of being a combat medic" claim, while I did say that, I feel it was miss construed as the current attitude to how gang members would want police to deal with major gunfights is to not even turn up to them or just pick up all the bodies at the end, we are shifting how firearms will be operating firstly following a meeting with management and staff leads in regards to this and with what Police Command have passed down to us, which is to be more aggressive and confrontational during these situations. This also covers the common sense part of your report because as specified we did not just run onto a gang turf with no idea what we were doing, we prepared ourselves with our assets (99 | MRAP | OPS Rifle) and made an attempt to grab two people who were actively involved in a shooting. 

I would also like to finalise by saying the shots from 99 came straight after the firearms on the ground were mostly downed, in this video HERE it is seen that Ballas members are running about directly after shooting armed officers taking their body worn cameras and phones etc, this was not done for no reason, those Ballas were shot because they had just engaged the police with firearms, while them being shot with no visible

I hope this has cleared things up for you and the staff who will be reviewing this report.

 - Barker

 

[CJ]

I was one of the firearms officers on the ground in this situation. Let's windle this down one by one of the rules you claim we broke:

BAITING
(G1.3) Baiting - Taking deliberate actions to create a scenario where you get chased or engaged with, especially to cause a firefight. Examples: Robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, deliberately committing crimes in front of the police, swearing at a group of gang members.

Police are there to fight crime, Ballas and Hustlers were both breaking the law by engaging in a shootout - it is simply our job to intervene, I am unsure how you can consider police doing their job as 'baiting'. Firearms have been overly and too passive with these gang shootouts, sitting around and watching is not what we should be doing, what we should be doing is what happened today. When we have sat around and watched these gun fights, wouldn't it be more appropriate to label the gangs actively engaging in gun fights in front of armed police as 'baiting' - because this has happened way too many times to count.

COMMON SENSE
(C1.7) Common Sense - As a Roleplay game, every situation is different and not everything can be detailed within these rules and so it is important to remember this is an adult community and some things simply come down to common sense.

I am unsure how common sense comes into this, as I mentioned above Police are there to do the job of stopping and preventing crime. In this situation that is exactly what was done, we had a helicopter above that was giving us comms on who was where, and we found two Ballas members standing on a roof alone away from all others, so we chose to attempt to apprehend the two of them. This led to a foot chase which went into a compound in Forum Drive, NPAS called out that there was a total of 5 people in that compound, we had 7 in the compound, the cover of the Ops Rifle and the MRAP outside of the compound, it was well thought through and I do not see a lack of common sense here at all. I will make the same argument again, gang members actively shooting in front of armed police lacks common sense and to be honest, doesn't make much sense at all, which again happens every single night.

MASS RDM
(G1.2) Random Death Match (RDM) - Attacking another player without engaging in any form of quality roleplay is considered RDM. (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. “Put your hands up or I will shoot” and countdowns are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering violence.) - Mass RDM is a permanent ban.

I am failing to see how we lacked any form of roleplay in this situation at all, as I said above, we chased two Ballas who were cut off from the rest off a roof into Forum Drive. Once we got inside the compound we knew we had Ops Rifle cover above, so our plan was to get the two we were chasing, which we attempted to do by saying "Armed Police, show us your hands" as we're supposed to, at that point Ballas pulled out guns and aimed and shot them towards police, which led to Police having to shoot back. There was no lack of RP at all in this situation, I think the biggest issue here is that you have become used to us being passive with these shootouts, and now a chance has been made you're not happy about it as you're used to having your fun and shooting at one another without the Police doing anything about it. We have been told to change this approach and confront any gang gun fights head-on, which is exactly what we did today. 

I think it is also worth noting that we attempted to explain all of this to you guys in Liaison however, you did not want to hear our side and left the VC before we had finished explaining. Also, the officer who said "I'm tired of being a combat medic" has not played the server in two months, and here and in Liaison you were attempting to put words in his mouth and label him as what some would call a "fragger", which isn't the case. As you said in Liaison "this is a game", and we get that which is why we are all here to have fun and play the game, but the point we were making on that was it's not fun for us to have to sit there and babysit a gunfight while taking a back seat, we also want to play the game and have fun and I think I speak for a lot of officers here, although providing medical is part of the RP, it's not the most exhilarating of experiences. The way we have gone about these major gun fights the last few weeks/months has been way too passive, and the only ones benefiting and having fun from this are the ones fighting each other and we are left to clean up the mess... and this is not how it should be at all.

 

[PJ Adams]

This video here provides a little more context from the situation as I couldn't clip it all myself.
 

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As you can see, the police did have aerial support which was seen in the video which should've announce how many in actuality we had on roofs and on Ballas turf in general. I realise you guys want to join in and not be 'combat medics' as Stuart has stated but there's ways of doing so whilst making it enjoyable for both. This is a server for roleplay and the roleplay, if you could even call it that was abysmal from police.

 

[Nikolai]

Hello, this involves a staff member, so it needs a staff lead+ to deal with it, so it might take a bit longer than usual, in the meantime, any other evidence you have, post it please!

 

[Baron Butcher]

2 hours ago, PJ Adams said:

This video here provides a little more context from the situation as I couldn't clip it all myself.
 

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 Hello, I was involved in the situation..

I am genuinely confused by your comment " This is a server for roleplay and the roleplay, if you could even call it that was abysmal from police." What do you expect us to do? Ask nicely if you want to surrender and I hope you do?. The facts are two OCG'S are shooting it out in the middle of the city, Our job is to save life and limb and stop this from happening. As firearms, we are the first people in to disrupt, stop and contain the situation. That is what we did.. We had the heli above giving us comms as @CJ stated. We were actively on ballers and around your turf (for around 10 mins) attempting to capture anyone on their own and we had seen two of you running into the compound hence The firearms chasing them. The lads were given clear instructions and orders. But they decided to run away and shoot. We literally tell crims all the time to put up their hands and stop moving and its never been an issue. 

All of this was explained in the discord liaison but you decided to leave halfway through. 

But if we are talking about 
"high-quality roleplay" I don't think saying " one dead" fits any of this. Its more Arma 3/call of duty vibes. https://streamable.com/pm0r45

Also, running up to most police there from what I could gather and immediately stripped their comms, phone, and bodycam. I also fail to see how this is good roleplay. If anything the constant stripping of bodycam only shuts down roleplay as it makes it almost impossible to do anything about what just happened... And I'm sure taking of such items needs "roleplay" @Nikolaiplease correct me if i am wrong.

But my question to you @PJ AdamsIf you were in our shoes, how would you have tackled this situation? 
 

 

[PJ Adams]

my question to you @PJ AdamsIf you were in our shoes, how would you have tackled this situation? 

I'll be honest, I'm not gonna go back and forth with you all. I've said my bit and am going to wait for staff lead's opinion on the matter. I think multiple rule breaks have happened in this particular scenario.

In regards to a few of the claims you made, 'one dead' is communication between gang members telling the other person/people that the person they're fighting is in fact dead. Would you rather them say 'Hustlers gang member on the apartments block across the road's been shot in the head?' No, it's not happening, comms would be atrocious. Quick, simple.

Also, you'd be a shit gang member if you just let police use every bit of evidence on their body cam in order to raid houses, gang turfs etc? You're making claims that make no sense to the actual report and what firearms are being reported for but instead try to criticise Ballas roleplay instead. If you think Ballas have broke any rules though throughout that entire situation, feel free to do the same as I have and report them for it.

 

[Scott]

Afternoon PJ, hope all is well. I'm not sure if you tried to summon me to a liaison (I was the one with the Operations Rifle) after you got hit whilst driving the Alfa Romeo as I had turned my OOC chat off earlier in the evening, this was because of the wave of OOC messages from Ballas members and more specifically after someone mentioned and I quote "ctsfos where was the initiation? just on sighting ballas for no reason lol" - At that point I could tell you were all clearly frustrated and decided to turn it off so I could focus on the roleplay rather than OOC.

I'll only respond to the claim you felt I RDMed you whilst you was driving the Alfa, as this report will end up being a long winded one. To put it simply, there was nothing random about it. You were very clearly involved in the situation, I had spotted you moments before circling the set of apartments where the initial firefight went down. This to me was the first red flag that you were involved. The second red flag was when it was called over radio by the MRAP (Big Armoured Truck) that you had driven up to him, and in no short terms threatened him. At that point, we were still in the mission of recovering injured officers & suspects (Primarily officers) and you were in the area for your own means, presumably to grab your injured. So with the fact we were still going to grab injured, this would mean boots on the ground & vulnerable, alongside you were clearly involved and threatened officers, I shot you to pre-empt the threat you posed.

In regards to "prior roleplay", in your own footage you can clearly see officers injured on the ground (Those very same officers we were in the area trying to recover), this is the same situation in which the initial firefight ensued. The prior roleplay is there...if you think simply because you swap outfits and cars changes that fact then I hate to break it to you, you're sorely mistaken. And finally, to determine the "high quality" of the roleplay, no shootout is ever high quality. I think we can agree on that. However I think common sense would dictate, loitering in the area of where we were operating (With a sniper rifle in the air, which you and your gang were very well aware of) and then threaten an officer - what did you think would happen? Fuck around & find out. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes. etc. etc. 

I also would like to point out a couple things, the first sniper round rings off your car which you clearly see. Instead of driving off in a panic you turn around very slowly and cruise down the road as if you're somewhat untouchable. Strange. The footage you've also attached titled "Blackhawk RDM", is clearly cut intentionally to meet the minimum requirements for a report a player rather than demonstrate the context of the entire scenario which seems a bit misleading. However, I understand if you have issues uploading videos longer than 5 minutes, it would be better that you upload them in a 1/2/3 and so on parts so those who handle the report have the context they need to act on this report fairly & justly. 

If you wish to have a chat 1 on 1, I'm happy to have it however I don't feel it'd be productive given what I've heard regarding the initial liaison went. It's your call, you know where to find me. If you also wish to pick my points apart and explain things here and there, go for it. However I will not reply any further. I absolutely detest the keyboard warriors who go back and forth on report a player threads and makes it infinitesimally harder for those reading and handling the report to go through.

Anyways, hope you have a wonderful day PJ and if you really want to reach out and have a civilised chat, please do.

 

[PJ Adams]

I'm not sure if you've seen any of the evidence i've actually sent through @Scottbut in no way was I threatening any officers nor did I even have a firearm on me at the time, it just seemed like firearms once again are too quick to shoot instead of engaging with people in any sort of roleplay. During that whole incident, I engaged with the MRAP once and made no threats, I asked them to leave after already causing ww3 and hopefully try to get them to pick up firearms bodies to go to hospital. Instead they saw it as a opportunity to shoot without engaging with anyone.

 

[Bowen]

This is a bizarre report frankly. At what point do you think cops should get involved on this server? If cops try to get involved in a shoot out, they get called out for baiting, when they try to perform their assigned duties, they get called out for NVL, when they come in low numbers in an attempt to calm a scene they get called out for NVL, and when they come tactically in big numbers, they get called out for RDM. 

I get that some gang members are frustrated that they aren't being allowed to shoot up each other in the middle of a major city but honestly, what do you want? If it is RP, then this makes perfect RP sense. The police service found that there was a danger to life and acted to stop it. If all you want is to shoot at each other with no consequences, then join a TDM server. 

Frankly, I am more concerned with the behaviour of the gang members here, I haven't seen a single piece of evidence showing the cops acting inappropriately, let alone breaking rules, yet I see OCG's making calls like "one down" and I see you using the walk styles to make yourself move faster when it suits you (something that can come under exploiting. The walk styles are there to establish character traits, not to walk faster when it suits you).

And yes, I know, a bunch of people are going to go on about this report confirming that its a cop server and fuck the gangs etc, but I can assure you that is not the case. Take your fights away from the city... and you might find the cops bother you less...
Gangs are an integral part of RP, but it should be known that the police (with our blessing) are taking a harder approach within city bounds and looking the other way more when its out of the city. In what reasonable world would gangs be allowed to run rampant in the middle of London, Edinburgh, Leeds, [enter your desired city here], shooting and murdering with impunity? It just wouldn't happen and I would like to see it stop happening here. Alas, this will not change over night. 

Long story short, I have seen nothing here to suggest that the police broke any rules. I look forward to what ever clever comments get posted under the screenshot of this reply in various discords. 

Denied 

 

[Bowen]

Thank you for your report, Unfortunately, it has been declined

The staff member will advise shortly why on this occasion they have declined to take action against the reported player.

Please do not let this put you off making further reports in the future, We rely on our player base to help keep our community clean.