Report a Player - bigbe and Clank - RDM (Action Taken)

[M]

Your In-game name

Willy (76561198191814366)

Name of the player(s) you are reporting

bigbe (76561198100482155) and Clank (76561198053760488)

Date of the incident

24/02/18

Time of the incident (GMT)

1710

What best describes this incident ?

RDM

Which server did the incident take place on

Server 2

Please (in detail) describe the incident

I had robbed "Bigbe" at the Blood Diamond Processor, I used high level standards of roleplay, telling him I am paying him back for his sins. I then leave to go sell his Blood Diamonds, I sell one batch in my boat. As I return from the rear of the Hemmt I see a guy come out and say "Yo mate get on the floor, he's got his gun, yeah yeah get on the floor mate". I think, who is this guy? Surely he knows the rules. I grab his name through the keychain in case he classes it as initiation. Then from the bushes I hear a voice "Gun out and you die". An alternative to "hands up or die". I was speaking to Alfred a couple days before who confirmed that an "or" statement, like "hands up or die" and "hands up or be tased" is a form of Poor Roleplay. I recieved what Clank calls warning shots.

(2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).


This rule is not applicable in the red zone.

This is the rule they break here, "Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play", I explain to Clank in teamspeak where he went wrong. He claimed that because I had given them quality roleplay several kilometers away at the processor it deemed them to be able to shoot. They did not give me quality roleplay in return. Clank did not speak to me at the Diamond Processor. Clank and Bigbe did not give me any time to comply with their orders, and deemed their shooting to be "warning shots". We know the only warning shots around here is good quality roleplay and tracer warning shots on Helicopters. "Please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.", Clank did not give me an interesting roleplay story before shooting, he classifies: me giving his friend a roleplay story at the Diamond Processor quality roleplay, which it was, but he was not involved with that. He did not participate with that role play.

(7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high quality roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low quality RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. Executing another player must also be carried out with high quality roleplay, the only exception to this rule is if both you and the victim are engaged in a gunfight together.

The 7.1.3 Rule deems "Put your hands up or I will shoot" as low quality roleplay, which links to rule 2.2 as you require quality roleplay to be made before firing.

Bigbe had no visible weapon, and no weapon at all when he "initiated" meaning that he created a "Hobo Initiation".

In Teamspeak they both declared that because I had given them quality roleplay 12 minutes ago, this meant they could shoot. They claimed in a way that their initiation was high quality. I asked for the truck with the remainder of the Blood Diamonds to be returned, they denied this request because they had deemed the roleplay to be sufficient. Clank left the channel, where I informed Bigbe that I am filing a player report against them.

I feel these players should recieve a punishment because of their pure disregard for the rules. They state they have both read the rules, and have only been on the server for around a week. A week is enough time to read the rules atleast once and fully understand the experience of roleplay from both sides of the robber and victim. People should not engage in rebel life if they don't understand the rules.

Thank you for reading, I respect the decision the Staff Team make at the end of this.

-Willy

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot)

https://plays.tv/video/5a91a19939ac640d8b/bigbe-amp-clank-rdm?from=user
This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!

Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting

Yes

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans)

Yes

 

[Clank]

More than happy to discuss this with an admin in ts because willy clearly couldn't understand what i was explaining to him

 

[M]

More than happy to discuss this with an admin in ts because willy clearly couldn't understand what i was explaining to him

Just like you clearly don't understand our community's rules? "Hands up or die" and "Pull a gun out and you die" is not a valid excuse of quality roleplay. This is not what our community supports. 

 

[Clank]

Once again your one sided post doesn't include any of the points I was making to you on Teamspeak. You simply ignored me when I explained what happened and kept reading rules that didn't even apply to the situation.

 

[TikTak]

Once again your one sided post doesn't include any of the points I was making to you on Teamspeak. You simply ignored me when I explained what happened and kept reading rules that didn't even apply to the situation.

You are more then welcome to include your points here. 

 

[Clank]

The rp never ended from the first instance where he robed bigbe. I was stood in direct communication range listening and watching the situation. I saw him leave and we searched for him in a helicopter. We eventually found him as he was going out to sell the second batch of the diamonds he stole from US. We then waited for him to return and then proceded to try to hold him up so we could get our diamonds back and the money he made from selling them. The shots I fired are quite clearly warning shots as I was stood about 10 to 15 meters behind willy and there is no way I could have missed from that distance. I understand that the Hobo rule is in effect and I did not know that at the time as it does not say in the rule page anything about this rule. However I also 'initiated' the rp/robbery as shown in the video and his post. I'm not sure exactly how else you would like someone to ambush/rob someone besides telling them to put their hands up. Especially when they have a gun and will obviously defend themselves. Not very often in real life does someone have to have a 15-minute chat with someone before they mug them. Might be just me but im sure the first thing bank robbers say is nobody move this is a robbery. Not sure if you've ever played payday but hoxton doesn't have to chat up the bank manager before he surrenders and ties him up.

Once again I'm very happy to resolve this in Teamspeak like adults.

 

[TikTak]

Do you have a recording from your POW @Clank

 

[Clank]

No. At the time I didn't think I'd have to defend myself for doing nothing wrong.

 

[M]

The rp never ended from the first instance where he robed bigbe

Yes it did, there was 12+ minutes of me not speaking to anyone. Surely this means that I am not voice role playing with anyone. I know I didn't combat log but I am using the rule to show how I was not in any of the listed examples of the RP. It is purely to emphasise, I could of logged out because I was not in any of the listed roleplay scenarios. If the "RP never ended", then howcome the examples of roleplay don't cover what your doing from Rule 2.5?

(2.5) Combat logging at any point during RP is exploiting. Some examples of this include: logging out during a firefight, being chased by the police, arrested by the police, while dead awaiting a medic, logging out in order to save gear, rage-quitting, logging out whilst restrained/detained. Punishment is a ban. Staff can make an informed decision depending

on if you’ve made an attempt to resolve the issue. We do suggest you attempt to rejoin the server and continue the roleplay (try messaging them with the mobile system first).

I was not in any ongoing roleplay scenario with you at the time, I was not in a firefight with you neither was I being chased by you. 

I was stood in direct communication range listening and watching the situation.

Yes, you were within the range of voice when I was at the church (will upload a video), however where was your efforts to roleplay during this situation? I don't think there was any. When I had left the area, you probably could stop me with the truck, however you didn't there was a long time of no communication between both parties because I was driving and not being stalked. You even confirm this to me in your own paragraph.

I saw him leave and we searched for him in a helicopter

You seen me leave, yeah you did. However, you had to search for me in a helicopter. You told me in teamspeak that you had searched 3 different locations and you found me at Neochori. You had lost eyes on me, so the roleplay oppourtunity had ended.

We eventually found him as he was going out to sell the second batch of the diamonds he stole from US.

I don't see your point about how this links to your "initiation" being poor. Just because I stole something from you doensn't make it an excuse to give me poor roleplay. When we met at the blood diamond cutter, I gave you an example of high quality roleplay. My question is "Howcome you couldn't return the same level of roleplay back?" You state you were listening to the roleplay I was giving to your friend, so howcome there was an issue replicating the standard I was giving.

The shots I fired are quite clearly warning shots as I was stood about 10 to 15 meters behind willy and there is no way I could have missed from that distance.

Looking back on the video, they do seem like warning shots, as only a bot would miss at that range. However, on our server there are only two rules that mention warning shots.

(3.7) Baiting - Baiting for the sake of a gunfight is not roleplay. Punishment is a ban. Examples: Flying over someone with a chopper waiting for warning shots to instantly shoot them back, robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, etc.

(7.1.7) Warning shots must be issued with 3 tracer rounds past the front and rear of the aircraft. Enough time should be given to comply before taking action.

3.7 and 7.1.5 only reference aircraft warning shots, and these are the only 2 rules with the words "warning shots" in. 

So my only conclusion to this, is that you were shooting at me. Something which rule 2.2 directly prohibits in this case. 

[SIZE=medium](2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban).[/SIZE]

Because you were shooting at me, and didn't even give me enough time to comply with either of your demands, I consider this a breach of rule 2.2.

However I also 'initiated' the rp/robbery as shown in the video and his post. I'm not sure exactly how else you would like someone to ambush/rob someone besides telling them to put their hands up.

Yes you had also "initiated" with your friend, however at the time of your friend "hobo initiating" you were not a visible threat in the area, so I was not sure if he was trying to mess around with me, to make me put my hands up so he could get his truck back. You say how your not sure how you would like someone to rob me besides telling me to put my hands up? The thing is, you never told me to put my hands up! You said "Gun out and you die", a total opposite of telling someone to put their hands up. 

Not very often in real life does someone have to have a 15-minute chat with someone before they mug them.

Your right, that not very often in real life people have a 15-minute chat with someone. However you expect better roleplay on this server. I gave your friend my time to rob him out of his truck, I told him about how the Sign at the Blood Diamond Processor thought he had done something sinful. And so I took his truck off him for that reason. But you could atleast give me more roleplay than 15 seconds of words. A minute or two of chatting would of worked perfectly.

Might be just me but im sure the first thing bank robbers say is nobody move this is a robbery. Not sure if you've ever played payday but hoxton doesn't have to chat up the bank manager before he surrenders and ties him up.

I have played Payday 2 before, however ArmA 3 Altis Life isn't exactly Payday 2. You can't accuse a small operation such as a street robbery to be the same as a big operation such as a bank robbery.

So, I am going to ask you some questions:

Do you acknowledge the points that I have given to be valid in some sort of way, and would you like to defend yourself in any points?

If you could go back to the situation, how would you improve it?

What will you do in the future to ensure that your roleplay will be to the server's standard?

If the Staff Team deems his responses to be suitable outcome for the best of the RoleplayUK server then I will happily settle the report.

 

[M]

@Clank Any response?

 

[Clank]

A response to you means nothing. A discussion with an admin or someone with influence in the community about rules and 'initiation' Is the only thing that matters because you simply don't listen to me or understand what I explained to you when we were in teamspeak. 

 

[James_W12345]

@Clank, This is not the type of attitude we expect from our community members.

A response to you means nothing. A discussion with an admin or someone with influence in the community about rules and 'initiation' Is the only thing that matters because you simply don't listen to me or understand what I explained to you when we were in teamspeak

Can you have a read of this post (below) and tell me if you think you and your friend provided sufficient RP before you opened fire? 

 

[Gurlanin]

@Clank Please respond to James' request soon, or this report will be reviewed with just the information we have now.

 

[Clank]

I believe our rp was sufficient and justified. If you want to ban us then so be it but no one seems to want to have a discussion about this so I don't really care anymore. 

The startup guide on the server('s) its self-says nothing about having to read for 20 hours before playing the server. I read the rules and believe we have followed them. This is all I am instructed to do when joining the server as a new player. I believe we have followed all rules that we were aware of and therefore don't deserve to be banned but no one will discuss this with me so seems pointless explaining myself.

 

[M]

I believe our rp was sufficient and justified. If you want to ban us then so be it but no one seems to want to have a discussion about this so I don't really care anymore. 

The startup guide on the server('s) its self-says nothing about having to read for 20 hours before playing the server. I read the rules and believe we have followed them. This is all I am instructed to do when joining the server as a new player. I believe we have followed all rules that we were aware of and therefore don't deserve to be banned but no one will discuss this with me so seems pointless explaining myself. 

Your Rp was not sufficient by the information within the guide of the rules and Matt's post. A level of roleplay cannot be justified, it is to be expected. 

The discussion about the state of the intiations has already been made and decided by the staff team. 

I dont know what you mean by the start up guide. You don't have to read for 20 hours, the general rules sum it up well for new beginners. 

You read the rules, then howcome you made an 'and/or' statement for an inituation, when you know full well it's poor rp. 

You have broken a rule, the decision on whether or not you get banned or not is based on how you resolve and fix the situation and ensure you don't make the same mistakes twice. There is a point explaining yourself, because otherwise the staff team would of banned you straight away. I believe the Staff Team and myself see a potential for you to become better at roleplaying. I suggest you should turn around your attitude, reread Matt's post and have another go at answering James's question. 

 

[Xkan]

Okay after going through the evidence and responses from sides i've came to a conclusion. 

It's clear Clank that you believe you're fully informed with how our rules work here and I can assure you that's unfortunately not the case. You are to provide high quality roleplay in any given situation before opening fire and this was not the case here. You are in no way permitted to fire warning shots to a ground target either as that violates rule (2.2) Random Deathmatch (also known as RDM) - Shooting "AT" someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order. Count downs are not considered quality roleplay, please at least attempt to create an interesting roleplay story before considering shooting.) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban). 

Notice that the rule states "Shooting AT someone" not shooting someone and you shot in his general direction with below par roleplay. i'm going to be frankly honest with you the roleplay you gave was below subpar and is easily bannable but seeing as you do seem to have read the rules but just not fully understood them i'm willing to give you a chance on this one.

@Clank You and Bigbe are to contact me on through the forums or on teamspeak to set up a date where we can jump on teamspeak and I can guide you through some of our more complex rules and how you'd go about giving sufficient roleplay during a robbery scenario. Failure to do so before 10/03/2018 will result in a ban for both of you for rule 7.1.3. 

You will both still be issued a warning for rule 7.1.3. 

Report Closed.

 

[Xkan]

Clank and Bigbe have both failed to contact me and will therefor be issued bans for this incident. 

Action Taken against Clank and Bigbe for rule (7.1.3) Killing someone must be carried out with high quality roleplay, “put your hands up or I will shoot” etc is considered low quality RP and may lead to a ban for RDM/Fail RP. Executing another player must also be carried out with high quality roleplay, the only exception to this rule is if both you and the victim are engaged in a gunfight together. 


Clank 
Steam ID: 76561198053760488
GUID: fb33510732a312f8acf8476dbc79ef8f

Bigbe 
Steam ID: 76561198100482155
GUID: c226421cbedf51fb0b3e3b9e86cbfdbc