Report a player - Azteccas - GTA RP

[InfernusYoshi]

Server: GTA RP
Your Character Name: Jeff McBall
Reported Players: Azteccas
Date: Jul 11, 2024
Time: 00:10
What best describes this incident: Baiting/Teaming
Please (in detail) describe the incident: Sorry for the delay on this report as asked for in #2438 as due to the amount of sits Ballas were apart of yesterday, there wasn't really downtime in order to collect everything. Either way, apologies in advance to staff this will be rather long, but I want to ensure every piece of context can be given in one go- saving lots of questioning. As well as unfortunately more has occured to cause this report to be thrown up.

Context:
Ballas have been in beef with Marabunta for about a week, this started from insults, robbing back and forth, altercations, and has been happening for a week or so.

On the 9th, at about 5pm, Jalen one of our members was grabbed on turf by Azteccas. We have not roleplayed with Azteccas for a long time, so while this is sudden, things happen- during this conversation, Jalen is told that he is being grabbed due to the fact "we're getting too big for our boots as we are fighting Marabunta" a gang they have fought recently. Post robbing him, he was left at turf in zipties in order to pass on this as a message. While this was not clipped, we can see this in E-2 (Image labelled 3), and confirmed by Matthew Labile in E-1.

Later in the day, another altercation (minor) took place on tweedle, E-2 (images 1 & 2) so a member of Azteccas came to Ballas turf, and their fellow gang members surrounded on the rooves should anything go off. While we don't have the entirety of this clipped, and its not in earshot clearly (but mostly) from Jessie's clip, [E-3], the general gist can be heard, this member is upset about Jack being told to "shut up" on tweedle, Ballas just de-escalate and that seems to be over.

About 10-15 minutes later, with Azteccas not leaving the rooves in the area, Nex walks in and speaks to Jalen, from what we know- the clip of this we don't have our end, was asked to put his hands up as people on surrounding rooves were positioned to shoot him. He was placed in zipties, and as a group not wanting the situation to lead to combat, and instead be a discussion or generally anything else, we attempt to prevent it without a fire-fight, [E-4]. Jessie asked about this in QE, in relation to baiting, [E-5], asking in their perspective, how could that have been resolved any other way, at 1.15 Jack speaks about how he's allowed it to happen before, and he said that their reason for backing off their was "they knew they couldn't fight it."

This ends up evolving into a fire-fight and its of our belief this situation is done and dealt with.
We believe the above is enough justification of the baiting rule (G1.3), "Taking deliberate actions to create a scenario where you get chased or engaged with". At the end of the day, we didn't want to deal with Azteccas, and our hand was forced by deliberate choices made by the Azteccas present in the above situation.

We also believe the teaming rule (G11.2) Zerg was broken here. The RP reason we have been given so far does not date into the history between Ballas and Azteccas, it stems entirely so far from Azteccas attempting to prevent any beef between Marabunta, which has been led up by a multitude of reasons that we'd be happy to explain to staff privately, but otherwise would wish to keep from here in order to keep everything in RP.

Moving onto today, the 10th, Matthew Labile came to Ballas requesting to speak to higher ups, while this entire conversation was taking place, "resolving" what had been happening, again Azteccas decide to hands Jalen. Himself being hands'd is called out on radio, but not who by, we are under the impression it is police, and as Jeff goes to tell the Aztecca on the roof with them, he is shot down. We dont understand why, if not to bait a fight, a member would again be hans'd by Azteccas, especially considering the conversation that had been taking place (This can be provided to Staff in a ticket if needed), if not to bait conflict. Which in E-8 is drastically different from what is said here.

We believe the following clips also show towards baiting,
E-6: Taking a marabunta car post an altercation, and going out of their way to locate us at clinton to show it to us (seen at the end the car in question)
E-7: Attempting to smash us out of a car when we drove past their turf
E-8: Member of Azteccas talking about pushing balla turf, speaking about how they love pushing our turf
E-9: Matt walks into the safehouse during the afformentioned conversation, Anthony is sat waiting ready with a gun out, why would this be the case if he wasn't here expecting a fight.

At the end of the day, this couldn't be resolved in QE, full video available on request for staff, and so we're putting it up for staff discrection. Please let us know if theres anything further we can clarify to staff.
Link(s) To Any Evidence: E-1

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- E-2 https://gyazo.com/collections/a5f4cc5d36dd8e9b606cbc83c05a9bdb - E-3 https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/ieC548cpVANVFd4oT/d1337mlETzgm?invite=cr-MSxaTTEsMTc1MTU2ODM0LA - E-4 https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/if8HyH5MkB5jekbIM/d1337W2a2WIH?invite=cr-MSxLV0csODA2MzY2NzMs - E-5

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- E-6 https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/if5Aee6VjHFZhGLtT/d1337NgYwAAr?invite=cr-MSxsZlksMjEzOTQ5NDI5LA - E-7 https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/if5sCXN65i71BS5XE/d13370F5uF5P?invite=cr-MSxXcHUsODA2MzY2NzMs - E-8: https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/ieFGsLTru4s_5Ajiu/d1337A7CXSFZ?invite=cr-MSx0VkYsODA2MzY2NzMs - E-9: https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/if5UtVjQPANQop3FG/d1337Dgz2MRY?invite=cr-MSxtQ2ssODA2MzY2NzMs

 

[Mazza]

Hi guys, I’ll be responding on behalf of myself and my fellow scary light blue gang members.

I’m going to start by addressing all of the evidence provided (more E numbers than a box of sweets by the way.)

So E-1, as you know from Matthew’s character he can be quite unserious a lot of the time and even in the 21 second clip that’s missing a lot of context I would say this backs it up. There are many reasons which could constitute him saying this and as I go on you will further understand.

E-2 is just tweedle beef so I won’t be commenting on that and quite like this whole situation I feel it should be left to deal with in RP.

E-3 is an Azteca on Balla turf finding out a bit more about the situation of the robbing and looking to talk about the tweedle beef. Normal conflict RP. One Balla member is quite adamant that the war that took place in May was a mutual ending, which it was. However I was a member of Ballas during this war and I know that Ballas had success during the start but the tide turned by the end and frankly if it would have carried on Aztecas would have found a lot more success than Ballas (in my humble opinion.) This is one of the main reasons why Aztecas have been pressuring Ballas over the last few days as in many Azteca minds that war was unfinished business. To add onto this point as well, Aztecas have been pretty much inactive since the May war but a few of us have been around and heard quite a few times that word on the street was that Ballas won this war. Not really much of a mutual ending if Balla members are saying they won the war and obviously Aztecas wouldn’t be happy considering it was Ballas that came to Aztecas for the mutual, quite hypocritical if I’m honest.

To start with E-4, in the first second of the clip you can clearly see a Balla member with a fishing rod out. At one point there was maybe 5+ Ballas with fishing rods out on top of the Balla safehouse. What would 5+ gang members be doing with fishing rods out nowhere near a body water? I would hate to assume but to me looks like an insinuation of an OOC rulebreak and quite frankly just poor mindset in terms of RP. The rest of the clip shows an Azteca taking a Balla from their turf to make a statement that Aztecas are back and not to mess around, while this is going on you can hear the Balla radio being called not to take action, quite odd considering a member of your gang is being taken and potentially never to be seen again. Is this looking to use the knowledge of the baiting rule which you have reported for inside RP? Who knows. Ballas after a while did end up shooting first and Aztecas lost this fight, no big deal and this leads me onto E-5.

E-5 is the short QE call from the night after E-4 happened and starts by a brand new member of Ballas who has never been a part of a Azteca vs Balla war or any Balla beef for that matter asking some questions. She states first about the tweedle beef, a Balla saying “wind your neck in lad” and Aztecas taking this as disrespect, which honestly a lot of people would do especially basically the self proclaimed top gang in the city. Is it up to other people what Aztecas take as disrespect and what they don’t? It is also said that “is this enough RP behind a massive shooting” (bare in mind Ballas shoot first which started this “massive shooting”) to which Aztecas reply that it didn’t need to be a shootout we could have just gone back to turf which we was on the way to doing when Ballas started shooting. It’s also said that Aztecas could have asked to take the Balla member which we all know would obviously be a no and would have ended the same way. The rest of the clip is just talking about what outcomes could have happened and that's just down to the decisions made in RP when this was going down. Aztecas also added in this QE call that wars/beefs have started over a lot less and we all know this beef isn’t happening just because of the one Tweedle message.

E-6 is quite frankly a joke to be added in this report surely. No one tried to clarify if it was Aztecas in the blue jester and funnily enough it wasn’t. It was Cutlass and we had a fight with the car and driver shortly after when this was clipped.

E-7 is a clip of Ballas which I think is them with a Mara member taking him to Kortz Center or going to Kortz Center for a chat. I was floating around Azteca turf at this point and so were a few others. Personally, was it a good idea to drive through Azteca turf at this point? I don't think so. Aztecas were not actively looking for Ballas and Ballas have brought themselves right to the doorstep, not very smart in my opinion and this is also backed up by Matt the one who clipped this where he says “why are you going through Azteca turf lads?” An Azteca follows the Balla and says “why you going into the block like that, you know you’re not welcome.” More than fair to say this after the prior conflict. Don’t see a problem with what happened here?

E-8 & E-9 I am unable to see the clips now but I watched them last night so I will try to talk about them the best I can.

E-8 is Jack saying about how he loves pushing Balla turf, is talking about strategy now a rulebreak? Just the same way a gang or group would strategize robbing a bank, kidnapping a person from a certain location as it benefits them. He says this in terms of what would benefit us as a gang if another fight was to happen and I don’t feel like him saying that has anything to do with anything at this point considering without hearing what’s being said on Azteca radio it doesn’t give much context.

E-9 is at the same time as when E-1 occurred and it was Anthony and Ben in Gus' house ready incase something happened. Again don’t see much of a problem with this, Anthony’s internet dropped at this point which is why he was standing still not responding and had his gun out (a clip can be provided to show Anthony logging back in) this was told to Ballas in QE and even if he wanted to put the gun away he couldn’t? Not sure why this has been added either to be honest. We all carry guns doesn’t make much of a difference if he had it out or not.

 

[Mazza]

So now a few things I would like to go over with what’s been written aside from the evidence.

“Ballas just de-escalate and that seems to be over.”
This is in regards to what I said about E-3. I wouldn’t really class arguing about whether the last war was ended by mutual or not is de-escalating the situation and the Azteca says he will be back meaning that it wasn’t over. If you want to argue about if it was mutual or not sounds like RP that should be followed up on and not to be brought to the forums because as I said before it was mutually ended however Aztecas had the upper hand by the end and agreed on mutually ending it as they wasn’t going to ask Ballas to pay up money if they didn’t want to fight, something that Ballas do to every gang they fight in RP. Not sure if I’m fully right with numbers but over the last month or so Ballas have taken £3m from Chippione’s, £3m from Occult and have now asked for multiple different numbers from Marabunta spanning from £3m-£10m which is understandable if you conduct your RP that way but to then call for baiting after all of the previous and now current beef with Aztecas seems like clutching at straws to me and only picking and choosing who can beef you and who can’t by bringing rulebreaks into play just because you’re not up for it, last time I checked and Marabunta checked that’s not how beef works. I’ve been told by members of Marabunta that Ballas started this beef with them by coming to their turf blacked out and harassing and being lippy, disrespectful etc. To me it looks like a cherry picked beef that Marabunta had no choice but to take and they’ve dealt with it in RP as they should and not brought it to the forums.


“At the end of the day, we didn't want to deal with Azteccas, and our hand was forced by deliberate choices made by the Azteccas present in the above situation.”
To me this seems like a you problem. I’m sure Marabunta doesn’t want to deal with Ballas right now but they have no choice, pay or we won't stop is effectively the mindset from Ballas here. From what you’re saying, Aztecas have no reason in the world to have a problem with Ballas and instead of trying to sort it out, you are just avoiding the situation. You haven’t come to Aztecas once to resolve any of this. We came to you to resolve it and didn’t like what we was hearing which is why last night Aztecas decided to hands one of the people on the roof. Not our fault that Ballas wasn’t ready for something to happen and to me looked pretty clear that it was more than possible that something was going to happen. Again I don’t like saying it but to me looks like you was waiting for something to happen just to bring it to the forums which is extremely disappointing.


“again Azteccas decide to hands Jalen. Himself being hands'd is called out on radio, but not who by, we are under the impression it is police”
Okay so is this just plain playing dumb or miscommunication and misplay on your part? Aztecas were all over the roofs in case of anything kicking off which you all knew, as I said before it seems like either a misplay or knowing if a gunfight occurred it was coming to the forums, Ballas were just standing on turf roof instead of setting up for potential conflict, not very aware of surroundings I guess at this point? It must have been quite clear Jalen wouldn’t have been hands’d by Police considering he was on the roof with other Aztecas just as everyone else pretty much was too. To me it seems you don’t want to fight Aztecas and that should be dealt with in RP, not on the forums.

Okay lastly I’ll reply to the zerging side of this now.

The zerging rule states “Forming alliances or coordinating in any way between groups during attacks on other groups or factions is strictly prohibited. Coordination encompasses activities such as body pickup, spotting, relaying information, and simultaneous combat.”

Quite simply, Aztecas have not coordinated with Marabunta at all. No bodies have been picked up, no spotting or relaying information has happened and no simultaneous combat.

Thank you to the Staff Member(s) that take this report and I apologize for the time it will probably take to go over all of this. I’m also happy to answer any questions you might have. Hope you all have a good day

Mazza

(had to post in two seperate replies as I was just over character limit)

 

[Bonzi]

I'm writing this as a preliminary caution seeing as this report appears to cover a lot.

Only reply to the report if you believe you have been reported, and only if you have evidence or a credible explanation of events to bring to the table. Think - will your response alter staffs viewpoint/outlook on the situation? If not, best to leave it out. The forums is definitely not the place to have a back and forth discussion/argument/whatever about your viewpoint on events - we are only interested in concrete evidence into the alleged rulebreaks.

Remember staff have to review the original post and any follow-up commentary. Adding fluff that isn't needed makes it considerably harder for us to do this.

 

[Logan]

What evidence number is the baiting claim and what evidence number is the teaming claim? Just want to keep it straight forward. I’m seeing short clips attached that don’t seem to be showing any rule breaks. (Although I am aware those were for context purposes)

 

[Nikolai]

@InfernusYoshi please respond to logans question

 

[InfernusYoshi]

Hi Logan and Nikolai, I hope all is well.

The clips we believe condone baiting, as a general perspective are E-2, E-3, E-4, E-6
We don't think other than E-4 there is an explicit single situation of baiting, but more baiting across time with actions which we attempted to de-escalate, as the wanted "beef" was founded without any reason within RP between the two of our groups.

As for teaming, E-1.

Essentially, a lot of the supplimentary clips are more in regard to the frag-mentality that we think caused a low-level amount of roleplay to occur to us, which was essentially, 'we're gonna pick on one person in particular, they're going to take it, but we have no reason in rp do to so. we just want a fight.' In which they even admitted the response to fighting this (E-5).

At the end of the day, we want proactive, interesting roleplay, and grabbing someone infront of an entire gang we think causes a hostile, baiting situation in which we were forced to start a fire-fight in order to recover our member, and while they may have had members on surrounding rooves, they wanted a fight there, there was no RP reasons set, so they went again for the same person they had already grabbed. I hope this helps (most concerns being on E-4)

 

[Scott]

Good evening all,

I've reviewed the evidence and comments from both sides along with it, safe to say a long read.

The alleged rule breaks here are G1.3 Baiting & G11.2 Zerg. I'll quote them here for ease.

(G1.3) Baiting - Taking deliberate actions to create a scenario where you get chased or engaged with, especially to cause a firefight. Examples: Robbing a service station with the intent of a gunfight, deliberately committing crimes in front of the police, swearing at a group of gang members.

(G11.2) Zerg - Forming alliances or coordinating in any way between groups during attacks on other groups or factions is strictly prohibited. Coordination encompasses activities such as body pickup, spotting, relaying information, and simultaneous combat.

I'll cover baiting first, E-4 & E-5 specifically, with the replies made on the report. I would argue forcefully removing a gang member from their turf, whilst their gang is visibly aware and present is a deliberate action to create a scenario where you get chased or engaged with, in other words, baiting. However, there is no evidence to verify whether Jalen placed his hands up willingly, or was forced to at gun-point. There is a statement inferring he was forced to place his hands up, but there's nothing to back this up. Also considering he was directly inside the compound, I find it odd that was allowed to happen without any struggle. Ultimately, without evidence of what exactly happened with Jalen directly, or even the session ID of who did it, the evidence isn't sufficient to act upon.

If Aztecas did run into the compound and "hands" Jalen forcefully, then I would agree it would be baiting in this context with several Ballas on the turf likely ready to defend it (as any gang member would). But there is no evidence to prove this happened. That would in my opinion be taking a deliberate action to be engaged with, especially to cause a firefight.

There was also a statement made by Aztecas regarding this I'd like to comment on;

"It’s also said that Aztecas could have asked to take the Balla member which we all know would obviously be a no and would have ended the same way."

Aztecas could have made demands to take Jalen from Ballas, concerning the tweedle post made. If Ballas complies, happy days I guess, if they don't, then you could issue an ultimatum to Ballas such as "We'll give you 24hrs (Any reasonable timeframe) to decide what you want to do. If you refuse to turn him over, we'll get him whether you like it or not" or something along those lines, I think that's a better scenario for both sides and creates more roleplay, however, it's one & done, don't then use Ballas defending their guy as an excuse to start a gang war, that's daft (Assuming they choose the route of defence, which they likely would). I obviously cannot predict how the roleplay would pan out so don't take my word as gospel, just trying to provide some humble advice.

One more thing, the Ballas member who has the fishing rod out at the beginning of the video. You're either actually attempting to fish, and if successfully doing so, exploiting, or insinuating baiting in roleplay as in a fishing rod with bait on the end. I know which argument I'd place my bet on, but in future don't be silly. I don't know who you are, but if you read this, take your insinuations to OOC and discuss it, don't do what you did there....something something C1.7 - Common Sense.

Now onto Zerg, commonly known as Zerging. E-1, it's a 20-second clip of Matthew Labile who doesn't seem to know exactly what the beef is about, hence the asking on the radio. As far as the evidence shows, and that I'm aware of, there is no evidence to prove Aztecas and Marabunta did Zerg. There is no evidence to suggest there was an alliance or coordination between either of them. And as far as the beef goes, isn't it about Jalen and Tweedle? The 20-second clip isn't a lot of context, and Matthew himself doesn't seem to understand the beef however the replies made on the report suggest there are reasons why Matthew said this. Those reasons are unbeknownst to me. There is a lack of sufficient evidence to prove a rule break occurred here.

If Aztecas did start a beef Ballas because Ballas were fighting Marabunta, it's a strange reason to start a beef/war footing, however, if that's a suitable reason to start a war/beef/fight is another question entirely, and not one I can answer now.

I appreciate the time taken to write the report and gather the statements, alongside the replies, but overall the evidence is insufficient to prove any of the alleged rule breaks occurred.

Considering the above;

No Action Taken - Report Declined (Insufficient Evidence)