Report a player - Aztecas - GTA RP

[Donny]

Report a player 

Your In-game Name: Donny Donald

Name and/or ID of the player(s) you are reporting: Aztecas

Which server did the incident take place on: GTA RP

Date of the incident: 11/25/23

Time of the incident (GMT) 24hr Format: 200

What best describes this incident ?: Hop on

Please (in detail) describe the incident: Date and Time: 25/11/2023 - some point on from 02:00/02:05
Rule Break: G3.1
IDs: 834, 863, 880, 882, 887, 891, 892, 893, 896, 897, 898, 912 (I do not believe I have captured all the IDs)

Rule Break: G4.3
IDs: Matthew Labile (834)

Report:

This report is about what I believe to be a ‘hop on’ carried out by a large number of players from the Azteca gang.
Before getting into the full detail of this report I do want to mention that this is in no way a revenge report or anything along those lines for the loss I had yesterday. For those that know me well from both my Police and Lost characters know that I value interacting with people more than I do virtual assets. Often giving away most of my money in tips etc to people that have helped me or given me a good interaction, which is why I even bother playing FiveM and not just EFT.

Moving on to the report itself starting off with some background of the night prior to what I believe is a rule break being committed..

The Lost MC and the Azteca gang have started some form of beef which is in its very early stages.
At pretty much 23:00 on the 24th the Lost and Aztecas had a small confrontation which resulted in one Azteca being shot and the Lost making way back to the clubhouse due to an unknown number of Aztecas being present and the Azteca injured giving comms on radio prior. Shortly after Aztecas came and drilled into the gate and there was no further confrontation at the Lost Club.

Some time later Lost came out again and went on the hunt trying to find either small groups or lone Aztecas due to low numbers of us being around.
From this the Lost and Aztecas had a shootout in Sandy at roughly 00:20 where police got involved, a ceasefire was agreed for a short time and that was the end of that situation. I have a suspicion that Aztecas then logged off the server en masse at this time due to the high number player IDs listed on this report.

With that brief background I move on to what I believe to be the rule break listed above.

At roughly 01:30 on the 25th Lost noticed that Matthew Labille (834) was alone with his RP girlfriend at TireNutz and was promptly grabbed by us with no issue.
Matthew was taken somewhere and spoken to and due to the course of the conversation he was eventually shot and taken elsewhere. He was buried in a shallow grave and respawned I believe at roughly 02:00 but I don't know the exact time.

It was at this point where I believe Aztecas start logging on knowing that Lost are still on the server with the intention of bringing overwhelming numbers.The intentions of the Aztecas is clear with the alerts of the Mirror Park Club House being broken into at 02:11 https://i.imgur.com/RZTioNJ.png
We of course make our way down where we are promptly all killed by the Aztecas in a short lived fight.
We are all loaded into cars and taken straight to a dodgy doctor. Myself personally have no interactions whatsoever with the Azteca taking me to the doctor other than the standard frag shit talking.
I die at the doctor and that's where my interaction ends.
Short clips of fight at casino:
https://youtu.be/9KULOjKSMs8
Azteca IDs at Dodgy:
https://youtu.be/3O-neC9FWs4

So what somewhat perplexes me is that even Matthew Labille came back and instantly rejoined the fight after restocking, even within the NLR time. Aside from that it doesn’t personally make a huge amount of sense to me how someone can get back involved with that situation after the very recent RP that was had. Keeping in mind that Matthews RP girlfriend was never taken and would have been able to inform the Aztecas logging on what had occurred and that would be their main driving factor at the time to drill in and search the clubhouse at 02:00.
https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1FFvrFi6E5oR2i/d1337ct2LECO?invite=cr-MSw4RDMsNzAyNjE2MjMs

Picture of more IDs from one of the lost: https://i.imgur.com/nhdgN4L.png

With the above I do believe a hop on was called.
What I would ask with this report is that the suspicion is fully eliminated by staff and that a simple screenshot of a doctored Discord message isn't taken at face value alone and that there is more of a push to establish whether this type of rule break can be disproved especially given the time and that I believe Aztecas logged off due to their belief they wouldn't be having another fight and coming back when they knew there would be one.

Now I wouldn't be raising this if I hadn't had previous suspicion of such things occurring before.
On the 23rd following the first time Aztecas came and drilled into the Lost clubhouse we believe Aztecas had left. Some time had passed so I honestly believe that a large number of Aztecas logged off in fear that they wouldn't be able to frag. We exited our hiding spot and started leaving the club in numbers at roughly 22:30 where very quickly again a large number of Aztecas appeared and a fight was had after we moved up to Paleto. I believe a member of the Apostles was outside watching and passing information to the Aztecas. This video shows the time of when we came out and started moving away. https://youtu.be/X1dzhtldzVA - Of Course 22:30 is a reasonable time to declare another push but it just felt off pushing me to make this report.
My belief that Aztecas and Apostles are working together is in relation to this video where I was held in a boot whilst the fight was still ongoing. https://youtu.be/UzMosz4QlV4

Having been banned myself for exactly this I understand how and why it ruins roleplay. If they have broken these rules with us then I can only imagine how else it's worked with other groups…

Last thing im going to raise on behalf of the Lost. Having experienced some of the RP from Azteca its very hit and miss with you how get treated. A handful are very good, the others would rather just treat you like a loot lama, call you a “body” and still try and resurrect you at the dodgy with no words spoken or any enjoyment other than the frags.
On that note I am including another part for RDM:
“https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1FMIV9lgYMpXb-/d13373zo7eOg?invite=cr-MSx6N0EsMjMyNzA0NDgs

Logged on the server, got out of prison then logged back off for a short bit - once I logged back on I changed clothes, grabbed a few things and went to meet the rest of the Lost lads in Paleto. We went towards city, it's not a secret we were looking for Aztecas, on the way we spotted what we believed to be one Azteca vehicle going towards Sandy so we followed it. In the clip you can see we intended to get close enough to the vehicle to talk to him but as we got towards it we started being shot from other people who we had no interaction with at all.

Now I'm well aware we have had some problems with Aztecas the past few days, my issue with this is there was no roleplay at all, nevermind anything I'd class as high quality from the people involved, nor was the person who shot at us first (motorbike with shotgun) in anything we could identify them as an Azteca. I did try to ask in OOC what had happened, but was told we all knew what was going... only just logged onto the server not long before it and had no way to know that was an Azteca shooting at us so didn't know what was going on. Yes I would expect Aztecas to shoot at us, but I would expect some form of quality roleplay to be involved and would expect to at least be able to tell it's an Azteca in the situation.

We did go into a liason afterwards however it ended up being more aimed towards a discussion of the outcome which was Police getting involved, within the laison I did state I would likely not report however after seeing the rest of the rulebreaks from Aztecas through the night (what we believed to be metagaming, hop on, breaches of NLR) don't believe there is anything positive to come from the short laison discussion.

Well aware this is a very short clip, I do have a longer version if needed but it contains secret information about the Lost MC as a faction, therefore have been told by a staff member this would be best sent privately to a staff lead.”

Finishing off I think this is pretty clear cut and isn't something that requires discussion from myself. It's either legitimate or it's not and it's not my place to decide. I would not trust any screenshots given to me in a liaison if one were to happen hence not asking for one. I can't think of any questions outside of what the staff might ask and have nothing further to add.

Many thanks.

Link to any evidence (Youtube/Screenshot):



https://i.imgur.com/RZTioNJ.png



This report is the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth!: Yes

You tried to resolve the situation with the player(s) before reporting: No

This is not a revenge report (Abuse will lead to forum/community bans): Yes

 

[ErnieW]

Well, where to start. I'll speak for Aztecas as a group so we don't convolute the report with many replies all asking different things. I'll try my best to explain our side of things as clearly as I can and address your many points. If you have any questions at the end then ask, if not then fine.

At around 11pm you are correct, an Azteca did get shot. One thing I'd like to highlight in this encounter is the vehicles. A Neo and a Jester were identified as Lost MC by Larry Ping, the individual that was shot.

The next part is true. A lot of us logged off slowly just after the mess in Sandy with the intention to come back later in the night when things had died down. We'd just had a few fights with police and didn't want to stir more trouble up so we thought a short break was in order.

A few Aztecas begin trickling into the server as the agreed time to be around was an hour after we had logged off. Some logged on at 2, some after, some slightly before. It wasn't particularly organised, it was just, be there if you like. This isn't unusual for Aztecas to have a few people around for a late night look around. Cutlass have a tendency to be around at this time and sometimes we go looking. With the Lost MC and their willingness to fight, people are more likely to want to be on the server as there's more chance we get some action instead of standing around. It's unfortunate that Matthew was grabbed 45mins before but that's just the way sometimes these things fall.

Aztecas didn't "hop on". It is our understanding that hopping on is determined by whether an active situation is being played out and if the group "hopping on" involves themselves in the situation that was apparent before logging on. We didn't log on en-masse during a situation to then involve ourselves in that situation. It just didn't happen.

If staff check the logs you can see that Lost MC property has consistently been broken into on multiple occasions in the past few days. Four times just that day and that's not counting just us being in the area of the compound and businesses. At the time you mentioned, two or three Aztecas went to the compound to attempt another break-in. Simultaneously, two Aztecas headed to Paleto to retrieve a parked vehicle. Meanwhile, I was dealing with an injured Azteca, and Bandz was rapping on the radio. The point I am making is we were all scattered, not exactly looking like a party that's out for blood. To further add to my point, Nex was held up because he was on his own. A decent sized group held him up at gunpoint causing us to engage in a gun fight with this group, it was during this gunfight that Lost MC pulled up and attacked us, completely taking us off guard.

Matthew only arrived at the Casino after everyone had died, at no point did he shoot at anyone alive. When Matthew received the call about a gunfight we all called it out as random robbers not an organised Lost MC hit squad. By the time he arrived it was all over. Kill logs will back up the claim that the fight was against robbers and that Lost MC caught us off guard, something I doubt you will claim is false. Besides, Matthew arrived a while after his situation ended, hence it is a new situation.

Some time had passed so I honestly believe that a large number of Aztecas logged off in fear that they wouldn't be able to frag

Not a fan of that. We logged off specifically so we wouldn't have to shoot any more police, it was getting too much and we were constantly being forced into situations we didn't want. We logged off to allow things to settle and then come back.

My belief that Aztecas and Apostles are working together

Father is an ex-Azteca and has a ridiculous amount of built up history with us and our members. It would be weird for him not to help in some capacity. I also find it hypocritical that you have the nerve to bring up teaming as a member of the Lost MC. You had another entire F6, plus other random criminal players - like Craig Fallace - helping you. You had so many people up in Paleto that you nearly crashed the server. I suppose you leveraging your overpowered, admin-granted server benefits to help you is fine, but us asking for a little help off someone that has carefully built-up and protected ties to us in roleplay is a step out of line. Give me a break.

As for the "RDM" clip. It shows you chasing someone you know to be an Azteca. Two of the many vehicles in the convoy were vehicles that were called out as the same two that shot Larry 30mins before this encounter (see paragraph 2). Your video shows you pulling out your firearms. You are clearly aware he is more than likely leading you to more Aztecas and you are surprised when you get shot? When two convoys meet, both parties knowing they are in beef and actively looking for each other, what do you expect? Both sides shot and we both knew what the crack was. This was settled in discord and everything was fine and we even had a good laugh at how the situation played out but I suppose we're now acting in bad faith. I appreciate that.

I'll try my best to summarise and draw this response to a conclusion: 

We fought police twice. Just before the second fight with police we had a fight with the Lost MC. The second fight was in Sandy and was much smaller. After that fight we decided to slowly disappear and let things die down because believe or not, we don't want to shoot police all day. We agreed to come back in an hour to do our usual look about. We came back in an hour as planned, some people got ready for the next day, some went out to get up to mischief and others were rapping on the radio. We had a fight with robbers and the Lost third partied. They lost. The teaming claim is bollocks. The RDM claim is a case of two sides meeting after one side chases the other, hitting each other head on and shooting.

 

[Father]

I seen Apostles mentioned so i am only replying because of that, as the majority of the report is on Aztecas, i am purely replying on the part we are mentioned that you assume but i will mention the same as i have not only in group members or in OOC chat that night. 

With the whole "apostles and aztecas are working together" - 

My character Father Augustus, an ex Azteca, the father to Matthew Labile and probably 2 of the people that i trust the most within this city Hayley Mckenzie & Jack McKenzie
(the 3 leaders of azteca's btw) if you aren't aware.

Now within role-play, my character has a hatred for the Lost MC, its no hidden fact, i have said it to Charles Cotton-eyes face and i have said it to Mason and i have also said it to John Pope.

I say i hate what your club stands for but that doesn't mean i hate everyone within it, my character has a great deal of respect for Charles,Antonio & Aydan, if those fellas within RP ever asked me for a favor that was within my capabilities and doesn't go against my characters beliefs, then i would.

I was told by people at Tyre nuts that Matthew was taken last night, now within role-play i wanted to hunt for him and get the apostles to hunt for him, as he is my son and do it to the best of my abilities and i should be able to, but unfortunately due to the teeming rule i cant, the restrictions that are in place from that, is kind of a joke IMO and ruins role-play

So i done the next best thing, let the Aztecas know, by texting my good old friend Mr McKenzie, now if role-play wasn't restricted , i would've threw on a piece of helmet armor and grab myself a lovely 31% pristine UZI and 250 SMG ammo and paired up with Jack, to look for my son, now if texting him is teaming, ban me, if that is how the server is now a days then i will gladly hold it as it would show what its turning into.

& For the last one, the only time we have properly helped Azteca's (apart from all the helmets and SMG ammo that i have given them for free) would've been that big laggy fight in Paleto.

Did we shoot? No, Did i want to? You don't understand how much i held myself back and my members to from doing anything of conflict, and i have let the Azteca's know that IF in any circumstances that LOST MC & CUTLASS both 2v1 against Azteca's, not only will i be there, but so will Apostles, now with Staffs blessing that i would pray for, would be to allow us fight and make it an even 2v2 (even tho we got about 6 people but you know is what it is) but we cant shoot due to the teaming rule, but i will make sure i will try and recover their bodies and assist them in means that ain't firing bullets and within all ROLEPLAY SENSE save their bodies if i am also safe to do so.

you can quote 

(G10.2) The Lost MC may form alliances with other gangs or individuals only on a temporary basis. Non-aggression pacts are allowed.

to me, but that's a pile of crap, you act like a gang, and team with another gang, and should get treated like one also.

 

[Donny]

Father, apologies I think me including you in the may have been misconstrued in how I wrote it up and I apologise. I dont think there was teaming in a way that would break the rules and even if there was I dont mind. To me it seemed like natural roleplay on the most part. The reason the clip with your voice was included was to show that Apostles were involved in passing Aztecas info which again I think is pretty natural roleplay and then from there the next step which I believe you had no part in was a possible 'hop on'. I do not want the staff to take action against you as if I thought there was something wrong I would have asked you for a liaison as the rulebreak if one were to have happened would have been minimal.

Ernie, I appreciate the detailed response that you have given. The focus of this report is for the 'hop on' rule break I believe to have happened and as good as your explanation may be I still do not believe it. In my eyes its pretty clear cut but its not my place to make a ruling. I don't have anything further to add to your reply as such I will leave this up for review until staff have questions.

 

[L1L]

Your report is currently being reviewed, Please be patient while the evidence is reviewed

Please keep checking this report regularly just in case the reviewing staff member has any questions

Thank you for your report and you doing your part to keep our community clean!

 

[Jack Mckenzie]

I’ll attach 2 clips to show some more context of the situation. You’ll be able to see that we were involved in a different situation before the lost one and that the lost approached us. We didn’t involve ourselves with the situation with Matthew, so I fail to understand how it is hop on. Like Ernie said above we logged off for a break due to being constantly hounded by police and it was getting frustrating for people so we agreed to log on at a later time. We took all the necessary precautions to avoid the Matthew situation and I even didn’t mention the texts I had received about Matthew being kidnapped. If we were to go searching for Matthew I’d agree with the hop on accusation, but the Lost MC approached the area we were in after as Donny explained Matthew was already dumped and I believe had already respawned before this. 

Clip 1 = Ernie POV of the build up to the fight. 

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Clip 2 = My POV of context/buildup

https://medal.tv/games/gta-v/clips/1FFruq9Q3NLC0A/d1337pIFjmI8?invite=cr-MSxjc3AsMTQ1MjUxNjIs

This is the only reply I'll be putting as I can't be fucked with writing essays on the forums.

 

[L1L]

Hello!

Judging from the replies provided i believe that the timeline looks something like this:

- 23:00 (24/11) the Lost and Aztecas have a confrontation which results in one Azteca being shot and the Lost making their way back to the clubhouse.
- 00:20 The Lost and the Aztecas have a shootout in Sandy after which aztecas log off the server.
- 01:30 Lost noticed Matthew Labille at TireNutz.
- 02:07 Matthew respawns.
- 02:11 The lost received Alerts of the Mirror Park Club House being broken into.
- 02:30 A fight between Lost and Aztecas erupts at the casino.

Now let us ask ourselves what our definition of ''hop on'' is, although not a specifically written rule it comes under the meta gaming/OOC information rules. This is because the intent is to stop people from asking other players for help OOC and they then hop on the server to interfere or involve themselves in an ongoing situation. 

The lost MC and the aztecas as groups have an ongoing beef where both groups are actively looking for confrontation, evidenced by you kidnapping Matthew and the Aztecas jumping at the chance of possible lost MC members.

Now I understand that from your perspective @Donny the shoot-out at the casino happened very close to your scenario with Matthew but looking at the timeline, an hour had passed between you catching him and this fight. I do not see any reference to how these scenarios crossover/intertwine other than the already ongoing beef roleplay making them two separate scenarios.

Declined.

 

[L1L]

Thank you for your report, Unfortunately, it has been declined

The staff member will advise shortly why on this occasion they have declined to take action against the reported player.

Please do not let this put you off making further reports in the future, We rely on our player base to help keep our community clean.