Rdm against police

[wes]

I've just tried to log on and got a "you were kicked off the game (battleye admin ban (rdm police Rich197 1/6/2014))" message. Id like to make an unban request and apologise. I got arrested for wearing a police vest (which I wasn't aware was an arrestable offence and no one has yet made it clear that it actually is, since the post I made in on the forum enquiring about it has somehow disappeared)and I took revenge by assaulting the police and killing an officer (I was too styling in that vest, I just couldn't let it go). I have always been of the understanding that as an individual, I can attack the police at any time because I'm a rebel (own a rebel training & part of the BRC)but If this is not the case and it is classed as RDM then I apologise.

Cheers.

 

[byVELTEN]

I had a cop helmet on me and i actually got told by a officer to drop it or they would send me to jail or they were gonna get a admin to remove it from my inventory. 

I wasn't aware that u couldn't wear police equipment, i think its a cool meta game of sorts, get a cop to drop his gear to acquire it so you could look super fly

I really hope you get un banned you are one of the few i never thought would get banned, it seems like a misunderstanding and just getting pissed because you lost some of your swag.

 

[wes]

I had so much shwag with that vest! Totally agree velten!

 

[Heatproofsean]

in regards to the rebel training, you might own a rebel membership. That only gives you access to rebel equipment. Not the right to RDM cops and other players. And if you're a member of an established gang I would of expected you to know that. The rules are clearly written in-game, and if you have any questions or uncertainties, you should of asked before enacting them.

I was there at the time you were arrested. And returned when I heard gunfire shortly after you were released. When you ran north of the HQ it was me who put you down. I know what happened and killing on cold blood is probably the furthest thing from RP you can do imo. You let your anger get the better of you and the admins banned you for it.

And byvelten, yes I was mis-informed about possesing cop items. It is a ban-able offence but only if they are arrested and refuse to give the item up (as we would just take it from you, but can't due to game mechanics). However you were later caught and it was removed. But as  you identified:

get a cop to drop his gear to acquire it so you could look super fly

That's theft. Which makes it illegal, and you guilty of a crime. Police equipment is given to officers by the state, and remain property of the state even after they have left officers hands. The state only authorises police to carry such equipment, and as such, anyone found wearing police gear who isn't a cop must return it, as well as possibly being subject to prosecution if caught.

So by all means try and take police gear, but you can be arrested and if successful, forcibly removed

 

[wes]

Well that's all good and well thanks for clearing it up, is that flow chart posted anywhere? If not then it might be a good idea because this entire thing could have been avoided! I specifically said: 
 

I have always been of the understanding that as an individual, I can attack the police at any time because I'm a rebel

I'm well aware that rebel training does not give you the right to rdm other civs but the police aren't civilian players. I've taken part in many an ambush against police officers in my time and never been penalised in this manner, I never even though it a problem, particularly considering I was just arrested, had my vest and 4-five confiscated, fined 100k and told to buy a bigger backpack. 'killing In cold blood'? or revenge for arresting me and taking my stuff? I could even argue that this was rp but really, I felt cheated that I'd had my gear and money taken away simply because I didn't know there was policy on possessing police gear, and realistically - couldn't know, because its not stated anywhere. 

Anyway thanks for clarifying and apologies again for my wrong doings and misunderstandings, wont happen again!

Cheers.

 

[byVELTEN]

 

Well that's all good and well thanks for clearing it up, is that flow chart posted anywhere? If not then it might be a good idea because this entire thing could have been avoided! I specifically said: 
 

I'm well aware that rebel training does not give you the right to rdm other civs but the police aren't civilian players. I've taken part in many an ambush against police officers in my time and never been penalised in this manner, I never even though it a problem, particularly considering I was just arrested, had my vest and 4-five confiscated, fined 100k and told to buy a bigger backpack. 'killing In cold blood'? or revenge for arresting me and taking my stuff? I could even argue that this was rp but really, I felt cheated that I'd had my gear and money taken away simply because I didn't know there was policy on possessing police gear, and realistically - couldn't know, because its not stated anywhere. 

Anyway thanks for clarifying and apologies again for my wrong doings and misunderstandings, wont happen again! 

Cheers.

Since you were told to drop it and if you don't want to, i would definitely don't call it RDM if you shoot the cops to keep it, i would call it RP because you declined the request to drop it and tried to get away with it to keep it. 

If this is taken as RDM how would you keep it if you don't wanna drop it, not many other ways to RP saying "no i will not drop it, i wanna keep it", as i understood it they are illegal to have but not ban-able if you have one and refuse to drop it, so there has to be a way to say no which for me the only way to keep it is to kill the cops that are telling you to drop it, or if its only one or maybe 2 cops try and knock them down if they didn't just restrain you.

For me stealing cops vest and even there range master clothing is a very fun mini game of sorts, i feel like i should be able to defend my stolen items.

If anyone can think of a realistic way to keep it, please post.

 

[wes]

I hadn't done anything wrong at the time apart from be in possession of the vest, when they asked I refused to drop it and after a quick convo about why I should keep it I made a dash because I didn't want to kill anyone but they caught me with a taze! After being arrested and taken to the station the officer said I'd be taken to jail if I didn't hand over the vest, as I was restrained I had no other option at this time, I dropped the vest after being un-restrained then let him cuff me again to give me a fine of 100k.

I told him that I had a 4-five in the vest that I'd like back but it wouldn't fit in my backpack so he said I should go buy a bigger one. At this point I was beginning to get more than a little annoyed at the vest and money I'd lost already when I wasn't even aware it was a bloody crime, and all I wanted now was my gun back, this was the final straw.

After leaving the station on sour terms I took the Katiba out of my backpack and for the sake of revenge shot at the first officer I saw standing at the cop shop, which I assumed in a blood red haze to be the arresting officer. After searching around for about 20 seconds for any of my confiscated stuff with no luck, I ran north-west-ish from the station and got shot in the back apparently by heatproofsean, although honestly I couldn't tell who it was, by now I was just gutted I'd lost even more money on the gear that I still had upon death. 

I don't know if this helps my case at all but that's how it played out as best I can recall. 

 

[Heatproofsean]

Since you were told to drop it and if you don't want to, i would definitely don't call it RDM if you shoot the cops to keep it, i would call it RP because you declined the request to drop it and tried to get away with it to keep it. 

That's not what happened. 

He was arrested and in custody when he was told to drop the item. He did. Then he was released and left the base. A few minutes after leaving, he returned and killed the cop in cold blood. Without saying anything. Then ran away. There was no RP in that. 

Killing the cop wouldn't of gotten the item back. And as he has already confessed, he killed him because he was angry at losing the vest, as well as the fact the officer still had one. 

If anyone can think of a realistic way to keep it, please post.

You can keep it anything you steal or acquire from the police. But the way to do that, is not get caught with it.  

 

[wes]

as well as the fact the officer still had one. 

I don't know If I confessed to that I'm not that bitter lol Also I think I was back within 1, not a few mins, but its not really worth arguing the details. I've left a full description of what happened above. Although, I wouldn't have told the cops I was going to kill them prior to being arrested either, had it of went down that way, in which case it wouldn't be rdm. Can you really say the motive behind that killing is any less valid than the motive behind the actual killing that took place?

Either way I'm just glad to now have awareness of the rules behind possession of a police uniform, which if I'd had at the time would have extinguished the situation before it had even began. 

 

[byVELTEN]

That's not what happened. 

He was arrested and in custody when he was told to drop the item. He did. Then he was released and left the base. A few minutes after leaving, he returned and killed the cop in cold blood. Without saying anything. Then ran away. There was no RP in that. 

Killing the cop wouldn't of gotten the item back. And as he has already confessed, he killed him because he was angry at losing the vest, as well as the fact the officer still had one. 

You can keep it anything you steal or acquire from the police. But the way to do that, is not get caught with it.  

Ok, then i understand, and he seems to have raged a little, which to be honest we all do in someway, i very much think he has learned his lesson, i hope he gets a warning and gets unbanned, he is one of the most fun guys i know to play with and a very good RP'er.

Yea that is the obvious way and what you will ofc try, but if they do find you i would probably do what i said, i would say "NO, im not gonna drop it, *BANG BANG shoot them in the face*" or if possible knock him or they down.

 

[Heatproofsean]

I hadn't done anything wrong at the time apart from be in possession of the vest, when they asked I refused to drop it and after a quick convo about why I should keep it I made a dash because I didn't want to kill anyone but they caught me with a taze! After being arrested and taken to the station the officer said I'd be taken to jail if I didn't hand over the vest, as I was restrained I had no other option at this time. I dropped the vest after being un-restrained then let him cuff me again to give me a fine of 100k.

I told him that I had a 4-five in the vest that I'd like back but it wouldn't fit in my backpack so he said I should go buy a bigger one. At this point I was beginning to get more than a little annoyed at the vest and money I'd lost already when I wasn't even aware it was a bloody crime, and all I wanted now was my gun back, this was the final straw.

After leaving the station on sour terms I took the Katiba out of my backpack and for the sake of revenge shot at the first officer I saw standing at the cop shop, which I assumed in a blood red haze to be the arresting officer. After searching around for about 20 seconds for any of my confiscated stuff with no luck, I ran north-west-ish from the station and got shot in the back apparently by heatproofsean, although honestly I couldn't tell who it was, by now I was just gutted I'd lost even more money on the gear that I still had upon death. 

I don't know if this helps my case at all but that's how it played out as best I can recall. 

Ignorance of the rules or laws is not an excess. And yes it was me who shot you in the back, as I witnessed you fleeing the scene just after the officers death. 

I understand it might not be clear, but you "stole" that item from a corpse. When you die, any items dropped still belong to that person. And as mentioned, police equipment belongs to the state. We did explain all that to you. And we would of been more willing to return your firearm had you not resisted arrest, then tried to flee custody when we asked you nicely to drop the vest. 

Instead you chose to play the rebel and resist. Which is fine, but it means you will be dealt with more severely as you are not co-operating. So getting mad and killing cops because you made it difficult does not excuse your actions. And thus you were banned for it. 

 

[wes]

I'm not using it as an excuse for the killing, I'm saying if the rules had been made clear it might not have occurred, the policies on police uniform aren't written anywhere on the forums and I've never seen anyone arrested for it before. The cops did explain it to me but If it ain't written in stone then I'm not usually under the persuasion of strange possible corrupt policemen who could have just been taking me for a fool. I don't really know how I'm supposed to clue myself up in that situation.

Also if I'd 'played the rebel' alittle harder and just shot when spoken to, I wouldn't have needed to ask for the firearm back I was actually being nice by making conversation and trying to run I think everything I have to say has been said if you wanna re-read some of the posts above but again apologies for my behaviour.

 

[Wilco]

They should of sent you to prison for impersonating a police officer.

In terms of the ban its clear that was for an RDM, We now have very strict rules surrounding RDM in greenzone citys please read here - http://www.altislife.co.uk/topic/2548-server-rules/

Now we can process an unban but i want to make you aware it will be a one off and any further bans will remain.

Please let me know once you have read the rules.

 

[wes]

They should of sent you to prison for impersonating a police officer.

In terms of the ban its clear that was for an RDM, We now have very strict rules surrounding RDM in greenzone citys please read here - http://www.altislife.co.uk/topic/2548-server-rules/

Now we can process an unban but i want to make you aware it will be a one off and any further bans will remain.

Please let me know once you have read the rules.

Cheers mate, I re-read and it wont happen again. Just out of curiosity, what would have happened if I'd rp'd and said It just 'looked' like a police vest that I'd painstakingly hand-crafted from the finest Mongolian silk and kevlar? lol Also would be nice for arrestable offences to be added to the server rules, as I say I'd of just hidden it before I went into town had I known.

Thanks again.

 

[Wilco]

The laws are not up to myself... i will however request an indepth post from the police of the laws but i am sure they wont cover every crime!

Can you get me your GUID (by joining another server and taking a note of the alphanumeric digits in the text

Many Thanks

 

[wes]

Good stuff, I noticed the 'rebel gameplay (within the greenzone)' section, which would of applied to me in this situation, was blank!

Sure, should I post it here or pm you?

Cheers!

 

[Wilco]

Topic Locked, I understand Wes was unbanned.