New initiation rules??

[JamiNugget]

Apparently the rules have changed about initiation, I understand the Poor RP in "Hands up or die" but many people still stay it but more like "hands up now, or ill shoot , blah blah"

I don't normally do the initiation but I just shout hands up now otherwise ill shoot and and tell my orders what like I want them to do and if they do sharp movements , put their hands down or run ill shoot - I try role-play it out as much as I can.

If anyone knows anything about this please tell me and tell me what you say, I'm just very confused lately -  thank you.

 

[Saul Goodman]

All though it's more a mouthful, which a lot of rebels jaws hate to digest the correct term that hardly ever bounces around is to "issue compliance" If X then Y so to speak. Initiation  is difficult because it's considered multiple factors that break down whether the RP was good enough, for example your true intentions say you have said "Hey, buddy place your hands above your head, failure to do so and I'll shoot" bit longer winded but you get the jist.. now a factor that's looked at is exactly how much time you give the person to comply with your demands. It has to be reasonable, so I would say that roughly 7-10 seconds to let the little deviant completely process what you just said providing he doesn't do anything silly like draw his weapon. 

So just remember when you issue compliance / initiate  that your demands are not completely ridiculous like asking him for 10 mil right that second otherwise you're going to blow his brains out. 

But if you want to make sure you're safe when you do issue compliance make sure that you have Clear Intentions and Reasonable Demands and you'll be just fine.

@JamiNugget

 

[JamiNugget]

@Saul Goodman thank you appreciate it

 

[Rossss]

I think you're listening to people and their made up unwritten rules too much. My advise is to just go strictly off of whats on the rules page, but that is hard to do now that staff are following these unwritten rules too and banning people for them.

What @Saul Goodman said too though

 

[Samatlewis]

that is hard to do now that staff are following these unwritten rules too and banning people for them

Hmmmm... I don't mean to derail the thread and to do apologise, however could you please show some reports where these unwritten rules have been auctioned upon and are 'out of order' to have been action, so to speak.

 

[Oliver V2]

Every time I have ever banned anyone the rule is quoted, so I don't know where your coming from @Rossss

 

[Rossss]

Hmmmm... I don't mean to derail the thread and to do apologise, however could you please show some reports where these unwritten rules have been auctioned upon and are 'out of order' to have been action, so to speak.

I'll have a quick look and see if I can find any, but people have been banned for "knocking out with a gun pointed at you" and similar things. Other staff team members have said it is against the rules (Common sense, which applies to basic rules such as swearing out of rp etc, not complicated rules) to do things like spike stripping stationary vehicles. While not an unwritten rule as much, what is tactical information can be taken way out of proportion. 

How are newer players ment to know these things? I've made threads about this before in the suggestions forum though...

Every time I have ever banned anyone the rule is quoted, so I don't know where your coming from @Rossss

There are >40 staff members, i'm not saying everyone does it. You can quote rules such as "common sense" for things like saying people are being cocks but some people will quote it for things that newer members won't even consider.

As a note, just because I disagree with people being banned, being told it's against the rules or being told it would lead to a ban doesn't mean I disagree with that, it means that I disagree that it isn't made widely known.

 

[Samatlewis]

To an extent I do agree with you @Rossss, with regards to dealing with 'complicated scenarios and rules'. It's something we are... working on getting through; making sure everyone is on the same page and that everything is as well worded and contextual as possible.

 

[James_W12345]

Regarding the op, I think  'initiation' with a view to rob someone is pretty low rp. I know people want money to buy vehicles etc but there are so so so many more inventive ways of getting money than robbing someone. And more importantly, so many better roleplay scenarios than just robbing someone, that it should be the last resort and lowest form of RP possible.  if I try to take someone hostage with said initiation, the last thing I would think of doing is robbing them it's just so dull.

 

[Scott1sh]

Regarding the op, I think  'initiation' with a view to rob someone is pretty low rp. I know people want money to buy vehicles etc but there are so so so many more inventive ways of getting money than robbing someone. And more importantly, so many better roleplay scenarios than just robbing someone, that it should be the last resort and lowest form of RP possible.  if I try to take someone hostage with said initiation, the last thing I would think of doing is robbing them it's just so dull.

I don't see how robbing people is the lowest form of RP?

The last time i got robbed turned into a 45minute RP session as the hobo robbing me explained that he lost his job, house and needed money to feed his children, so i ended up giving him money to get back on his feet.

 

[James_W12345]

99% of the time I've seen robbery or been robbed it's "put your hands up or I'll shoot" knock out then leave. If everyone roleplayed robbery properly then I wouldn't mind but it's never happened to me in my time, and I've been robbed so often I never carry much on me, people camping cashpoints or motors for a quick buck it's a bit it's an joke. And u can't report them cos they "gave initiation" and if I did it every time I'd have not game time left. Mayne unmc are protected more than others due to their huge armory9

 

[Rossss]

Hmmmm... I don't mean to derail the thread and to do apologise, however could you please show some reports where these unwritten rules have been auctioned upon and are 'out of order' to have been action, so to speak.

As Deleter says here, there are no rules broken but staff are saying people should be banned as it is metagaming? It's not on the metagaming rules.

This hasn't been actioned but the fact that it has been stated that they should be banned shows somebody is operating under these unwritten rules.

 

[Samatlewis]

As Deleter says here, there are no rules broken but staff are saying people should be banned as it is metagaming? It's not on the metagaming rules.

This hasn't been actioned but the fact that it has been stated that they should be banned shows somebody is operating under these unwritten rules.

If I remember, i'll entertain this AFTER the outcome has been posted, as to not confuse with an ongoing report

 

[Jayray Holder]

Okay, first, ask yourself what initiation is. 

Initation is a made up action in game that is supposed to get you to inform / give someone the heads up so they have a chance to comply and listen and adhere to your commands. 

So regardless if you say "Sir put your hands on your head now or you will be shot" or the generic "Hands up for die" it don't matter because you are still giving someone a chance to comply with orders. So long as you give them a sufficient amount of time to comply with your orders, it honestly don't matter. 

Now this is an RP server where you play roles of people in basically modern times, the roles you play and the things you do have been done in real life one way or the other, so saying "Hands up or die" is bad role play compared to the longer sentenced "initiations" is silly in my opinion. When i am being robbed (which is like never) i care about what RP they give after i am robbed or kidnapped, i could not care less on initiation, initiation is such a minor part of role play that i can't care less. 

Finally if I say "Put your hands up now!" whilst aiming a rifle at someone, and they attempt to pull a gun, flee and i shoot them, that is not RDM in my eyes either (even though i current won't do that). The reason i hard to see it as RDM is because:

1. I am aiming a gun at your face

2. I am giving you a direct set of orders while aiming a gun at your face

Unless you have no common sense then you should really listen. And if the person you are initiating on pulls out a rifle you should take them down instantly, you should not say "Put your hands on your head now, if you pull out a rifle you will be shot", they should use common sense (which is hard for some, granted) and not do it, a gun is used to kill, it's not a toy.

Final conclusion - initation is out of hand and is stupid, it should be short and sweet and to the point, not biblical verses that are 100 pages long, we want to RP after the initiation, barely anyone cares about the initiation at hand. We need to be realistic. 

@Samatlewis What are your views on my points

 

[ErebusGaming]

To be honest, this is my first week on these forums and servers.  I can without a shred of doubt say almost all my interactions with being taken hostage/mugged have had this exact line spewed at me "Hands up or die!" The best ones are the people who give the countdowns such as "5, 4, 3, 2, 1" and blammo you are dead and out whatever gear you had on you at the time.

I have received these engagements from brand new players and members that have been here for quite some time.  

For instance was at copper processing (had stolen a shipment of copper from a player and decided to take process it) and a player walked right up and said, "Hands up or die!"  Before I could even exit the processing menu to comply I was shot in the back of the head because I had broken his arbitrary countdown clock for compliance with his commands.

I have been told by different parties that he was wrong and that he was right.  I was told, "because you did not immediately do as he asked you could be killed for non compliance" while the others parties I conversed with on the matter said "that it was low quality rp and RDM, there was no time given in the slightest to comply or to RP the situation out"

Well which is it? A defenseless player that is attempting to comply with your demands can die simply because it took one second longer than you would have liked or he was in the wrong because it was a low quality rp and rdm due to the matter being he gave no time at all to comply?

Personally I think the reason why there is such a disconnect between what is and isn't allowed (even though the rules clearly state themselves) is because of the misinformation that is spread by the player-base (this does not include the admins considering almost all accounts they have taken action against normally has them quoting the rules at people).

Also it might be the fact that so many people receives "slaps on the wrists" for their actions instead of a kick/ban so it doesn't instill that same type of authority to follow the rules as closely as the staff would hope. Yes I understand you cannot just ban everyone, but there has to be a line drawn in the sand.

I also believe people are just tired of being on the receiving end of terrible rp and dying because of it that they have lowered themselves to that threshold and stayed there, which in turn affects every player they engage upon.

 

[blaze1981]

As Deleter says here, there are no rules broken but staff are saying people should be banned as it is metagaming? It's not on the metagaming rules.

This hasn't been actioned but the fact that it has been stated that they should be banned shows somebody is operating under these unwritten rules.

this is one unmc were caught on a few months back ,  our lands were under attack  and we only had 5 guys in game so one of them made a plea for help in the slack group , we obviously obliged by jumping on as we didnt realise this wasnt allowed and when staff were informed we were given a stern warning and told if it happens again bans will be issued , 

so yeah this one caught me by surprise and something we had to learn the hard way as it wasnt written in black and white

 

[Vlad Vodka]

this is one unmc were caught on a few months back ,  our lands were under attack  and we only had 5 guys in game so one of them made a plea for help in the slack group , we obviously obliged by jumping on as we didnt realise this wasnt allowed and when staff were informed we were given a stern warning and told if it happens again bans will be issued , 

so yeah this one caught me by surprise and something we had to learn the hard way as it wasnt written in black and white

Back then they told us asking through ts was okay right? Just not slack steam whatsapp etc

 

[blaze1981]

Back then they told us asking through ts was okay right? Just not slack steam whatsapp etc

no we were told no asking anyone who is not in game at the time and that anyone who did log in after the attack had started was not allowed to get involved 

like i said such a grey area and one that i still dont understand 100%

 

[Vlad Vodka]

no we were told no asking anyone who is not in game at the time and that anyone who did log in after the attack had started was not allowed to get involved 

like i said such a grey area and one that i still dont understand 100%

Tbh makes no sense rp wise if your not allowed to call for backup on ts. I mean cops would be on standby/ could be called on their phone off duty and unmc would be sleeping in the barracks in fob/main base and rebels woild be sleeping in their base