Is this allowed?

[Papa John]

So my gang was in a active gunfight and i decided to help so i tried to get to the top of the bounty hunter HQ building and scout, but there was a UNMC member there who we had a active gunfight with but, no one in the UNMC havent seen me shooting or in the area when the gunfight started and i wasn't wearing my gang uniform at the time and you can see the rest from here. (sorry for the bad quality)

http://plays.tv/video/583f4db98ff066cdac/unmc

 

[FabioHoeg]

Too me this seems a bit sketchy, but considering you were with the gang in the active shootout, this is probably fine. 

 

[Slawek]

Well you had a pretty big gun on your back. I guess thats why he tried to killed you.

 

[AntonW]

Too me this seems a bit sketchy, but considering you were with the gang in the active shootout, this is probably fine. 

Well that would be meta gaming to know.. If he didnt fire any shots or been seen with a gun out (as in not holstred) and he wasnt wearing what is known as the gang uniform (yes the UNMC know what the LOV gang uniform is, i have already been kidnapped due to it) I'd say its quite poor to start shooting like that. Although a longer video would be appreciated.

Saying "hands up and then opening fire after 0.4 sec" = 0/10 rp.

Also in the video he had a mk14 on his back, he cant even put that in his backpack so in my opinion its rdm or atleast poor rp to open fire in that situation and the situation could have been handled ALOT better.

The only thing that might change it is the location were it happent, bounty hunter HQ is a known location were people go in a gun fight and i guess its suspicious that he was going up there but still to just open fire like that is still very poor rp. Who knows maybe he was going up there to bird watch and he couldnt put his gun in his backpack because its a mk14 and at the end of the day this is a ROLE PLAY server isnt it? Not a gunfight server.

 

[FabioHoeg]

Well that would be meta gaming to know.. If he didnt fire any shots or been seen with a gun out (as in not holstred) and he wasnt wearing what is known as the gang uniform I'd say its quite poor to start shooting like that. Although a longer video would be appreciated.

Saying "hands up and then opening fire after 0.4 sec" = 0/10 rp.

Also in the video he had a mk14 on his back, he cant even put that in his backpack so in my opinion its rdm or atleast poor rp to open fire in that situation and the situation could have been handled ALOT better.

Oh man, I made it sound like I'm on the UNMC side in this one... that's not the case at all. The UNMC were shooting everyone in kavala with guns... A friend of mine and me both were "takings shots" from UNMC, which when I confronted them about it, they claimed it was "warning shots"  because I was watching them with binoculars. Considering they shot before I got out makes this seem.. weird. 

I did talk with a UNMC Lt. in rp about it, and he was really nice about it. Explaining why and aplogizing.

 

[blaze1981]

sadly if an armed rebel is running around in the middle of a gun fight wearing rebel clothing then sometimes they will be mistaken for someone who is in the gunfight and shot by mistake , 9/10 this is just simply a mistake and a quick chat in the liason room is normaly all it takes to sort it out , 

but let me ask you a question if in real life you heard gunshots would you run straight in to the middle of them or would you run away in the opposite direction screamin for your life?. So why do people think its ok to run into the middle of an active gun fight and not expect to be mistaken for an active participate remember guys serious roleplay community 

stop running in to active gunfights armed and then act in disbelief when your shot, do what you would do in real life and run like fuck as anyone in a rebel uniform running into a firefight  , would be assumed to be involved

 

[Samatlewis]

Haven't watched the video but from what is described it seems as though the guy had a large rifle, granted it was holstered. To go to a location that you KNOW the enemy is and attempt to get to their position, all the while with a VISIBLE gun that is holstered, how can you NOT expect to get shot? I mean C'mon, if you didn't want to get shot you'd put that gun in your car or something. If you actually didn't want to join the fight you'd drive or run away.

If the police were in a gunfight with rebels EVERYONE on sight with a rifle to hand would be shot (UNLESS informed they are friendly(non-hostile) and leaving the immediate area with the knowledge they aren't involved). Would you still moan to have been shot? Probably not.

(currently at the barbers so I will watch the video and make an actual assessment later)

 

[YoCo]

I would say common sense dictates what happens in these situations. 

Because its kavala, and rebels sometimes spawn in with 7.62's on there back (can't be back packed) they shouldn't neccesarily be shot on sight. However, more often or not you can tell if someone is involved by there actions and movements. 

E.g running up a vantage point such as the bounty hunter hq, would most likely be hostile!

whereas an individual standing in the middle of the street talking, making no attempts to take cover. Most likely isn't involved!  

Situations like this should be assessed on a case by case basis. In this instant, I would say it was reasonable enough to warrant shooting at you by your actions of having a rifle (on your back nonetheless) and taking a vantage point during an active gunfight. 

 

[Shalloa]

Haven't watched the video but from what is described it seems as though the guy had a large rifle, granted it was holstered. To go to a location that you KNOW the enemy is and attempt to get to their position, all the while with a VISIBLE gun that is holstered, how can you NOT expect to get shot? I mean C'mon, if you didn't want to get shot you'd put that gun in your car or something. If you actually didn't want to join the fight you'd drive or run away.

If the police were in a gunfight with rebels EVERYONE on sight with a rifle to hand would be shot (UNLESS informed they are friendly(non-hostile) and leaving the immediate area with the knowledge they aren't involved). Would you still moan to have been shot? Probably not.

(currently at the barbers so I will watch the video and make an actual assessment later)

+1

Get out if you dont want to fight. i your walking around with a weapon like that during a firefight your almost 100% sure you will be killed.

'i saw him running with a gun'  its commonsense guys. 

Well that would be meta gaming to know.. If he didnt fire any shots or been seen with a gun out (as in not holstred) and he wasnt wearing what is known as the gang uniform (yes the UNMC know what the LOV gang uniform is, i have already been kidnapped due to it) I'd say its quite poor to start shooting like that. Although a longer video would be appreciated.

Saying "hands up and then opening fire after 0.4 sec" = 0/10 rp.

Also in the video he had a mk14 on his back, he cant even put that in his backpack so in my opinion its rdm or atleast poor rp to open fire in that situation and the situation could have been handled ALOT better.

The only thing that might change it is the location were it happent, bounty hunter HQ is a known location were people go in a gun fight and i guess its suspicious that he was going up there but still to just open fire like that is still very poor rp. Who knows maybe he was going up there to bird watch and he couldnt put his gun in his backpack because its a mk14 and at the end of the day this is a ROLE PLAY server isnt it? Not a gunfight server.

" Well that would be meta gaming to know.."      big gun on his back, i think that makes a bigger target then his actual name. 

"  If he didnt fire any shots or been seen with a gun out "   Big gun on his back during a firefight, if you dont want to get involved leave.

" I'd say its quite poor to start shooting like that "  &  " Saying "hands up and then opening fire after 0.4 sec" = 0/10 rp "  its a firefight, initiation was done, if you are walking around and then running up stairs with a gun on your back during a firefight there is a very high change you are involved in that shootout. having a gun on your back dose not help you at all. if it was a hobo i would have agreed!

"he had a mk14 on his back, he cant even put that in his backpack"  buy a smaller gun, walking around with a gun that size that you cant fit in your backpack is a choice you make when buying the gun. 

" in my opinion its rdm or atleast poor rp to open fire in that situation "  Big scary gun. running around during a gun fight.. rdm is when you are unaware why your are being killed or when you have not received the proper roleplay. this case the person was aware of the gunfight with his friends and agreed on the fact that he would have helped.
There for he accepts the roleplay from the gang and understands its possible he can be shot. 

" the situation could have been handled ALOT better. "  cant all situations were shots are fired be handled ALOT better ?   RP everthing?   

again guys its commonsense if you dont want to get involved get out.  if you are involved you have a high changes of losing your gear, this goes both ways.

@Tuplajuusto this is no offence to you, or to anyone for that mather. its commonsense. 

@AntonWI highlighted some points you made. This is not against you bad im trying to explain some commonsense. if you do feel offended i apologizes. 

if anyone is offended by this let me know.

 

[AntonW]

+1

Get out if you dont want to fight. i your walking around with a weapon like that during a firefight your almost 100% sure you will be killed.

'i saw him running with a gun'  its commonsense guys. 

" Well that would be meta gaming to know.."      big gun on his back, i think that makes a bigger target then his actual name. 

"  If he didnt fire any shots or been seen with a gun out "   Big gun on his back during a firefight, if you dont want to get involved leave.

" I'd say its quite poor to start shooting like that "  &  " Saying "hands up and then opening fire after 0.4 sec" = 0/10 rp "  its a firefight, initiation was done, if you are walking around and then running up stairs with a gun on your back during a firefight there is a very high change you are involved in that shootout. having a gun on your back dose not help you at all. if it was a hobo i would have agreed!

"he had a mk14 on his back, he cant even put that in his backpack"  buy a smaller gun, walking around with a gun that size that you cant fit in your backpack is a choice you make when buying the gun. 

" in my opinion its rdm or atleast poor rp to open fire in that situation "  Big scary gun. running around during a gun fight.. rdm is when you are unaware why your are being killed or when you have not received the proper roleplay. this case the person was aware of the gunfight with his friends and agreed on the fact that he would have helped.
There for he accepts the roleplay from the gang and understands its possible he can be shot. 

" the situation could have been handled ALOT better. "  cant all situations were shots are fired be handled ALOT better ?   RP everthing?   

again guys its commonsense if you dont want to get involved get out.  if you are involved you have a high changes of losing your gear, this goes both ways.

@Tuplajuusto this is no offence to you, or to anyone for that mather. its commonsense. 

@AntonWI highlighted some points you made. This is not against you bad im trying to explain some commonsense. if you do feel offended i apologizes. 

if anyone is offended by this let me know.

Why would i feel offended at all, we are arguing and I like arguing ;3 (even though i HATE typing). Im just stating what i think based on what i have seen here and even if its not RDM i do still consider it poor.

I just have two things to add.

Most of youre points i understand and seem fair. But what i am getting hung up on is were does it say that he is in the active gunfight? At what exact point is he considered "in a gunfight"? was it when it started and he had a gun on his back because he he couldnt put it away? When he went into the the bounty hunter HQ or when he was going into the room with the ladder? If he would have been on the bottom floor with his gun on his back would it still be okay to shoot him? Where do you draw the line?

When it comes to drawing the line, everyone has different opinions and that includes staff and support members which is why its so hard to know if its a rule break or not. Different staff will say different thing, who do i trust? So saying youre "explaining some common sense" try putting your self in us normal players shoes who every week hears a different version of the rules and if we f*ck up we dont have a support/staff member to back us up.

The common sense part of the rules also known as "the part of the rules which isnt written down and that everyone (including staff) has a different versions of".

Man its starting to get very off topic now.

SECONG THING. The reason i got into this argument is because it has happent so many times that i or just random people i have seen has been shot on sight because they have a gun on their back although sometimes they dont even have that and they are just standing still and they end up getting shot. And i DO think that this is a real issue which needs to be brought up within the UNMC and i know alot of people think like this. The UNMC needs to be a bit less trigger happy and "execution" happy because most of the time it feels like youre just walking around trying to find people to execute.

Sure when something like this happens we can always go on team speak and argue for 30 min, and spend another 15 min uploading a video everytime something like this happens OR we can acknowledge that this is a problem and try and do something about it.

Inb4 "they're just salty"

Its not just that they're salty, my honestly opinion of what i have seen of the UNMC this last month is really bad, worse than most gangs i see, sure i have had some good rp with the UNMC but alot of the time it just ends up with them trying to find the tiniest reason to execute people. Like for example "YOUR STANDING TO CLOSE TO MY FACE" *while pointing gun at you* *while standing 1-2 meters away from him*. Or when you tell a UNMC member that he kinda looks like a potato and you end up getting executed for it. It makes the UNMC look like all you care about is if you can break your record for "most executions in 24h" and that is not what this server nor the UNMC should be about.

I know i got WAY off topic but i think its relevant to how the UNMC act. (feels like i have written a short essay or a debate article)

ALSO THIS:

"

@Tuplajuusto this is no offence to you, or to anyone for that mather. Its common sense.

@AntonWI highlighted some points you made. This is not against you bad im trying to explain some commonsense. if you do feel offended i apologizes.  "

Makes it look like you think of us as increably stupid or that youre stating that we dont have "common sense". And that i do take offence of. Although i do understand that its not what you ment.

 

[B0sh]

@AntonWill tell you what i got told last time this happened to me if you cant put it in your backpack its your own fault and then run into a gunfight and not expect to be shot, cmon its common sense, also the UNMC arent trigger happy we execute people who we are at war with or we see breaking our laws, for you to put that on the whole UNMC is quite unnecessary 

 

[AntonW]

Josh what i am saying is not only relevant to this situation its relevant to almost all situations. You ask a support/staff member something and then ask another staff/support member the same thing theres a 10% chance they'll say something different, how are we supposed to know who to trust and who not to. This is due to the fact that theres so many unwritten rules and im sure the staff are trying their best but all im saying is that the support/staff needs to put themselfs in our shoes sometimes. Its quite hard to know who i can trust and who i cant trust. Especially if youre in a group which doesnt have a support/staff member in it.

Also take lov out of your "ingame name", " Ingame Name: [LOV] Bosh", you left like half a year ago or more.-

Also again, im too tired to argue anymore so im going to bed.

 

[Shalloa]

@AntonW

were does it say that he is in the active gunfight? At what exact point is he considered "in a gunfight"? was it when it started and he had a gun on his back because he he couldnt put it away? When he went into the the bounty hunter HQ or when he was going into the room with the ladder? If he would have been on the bottom floor with his gun on his back would it still be okay to shoot him? Where do you draw the line?

Good point..  the line is there bad it is hard to tell at some points. 
the only thing i can say is use commonsense now this is no way gives you any direct answers bad there is no way to say the line is on so many meters. 
if you in kavala and your 'gang' is withing a gun fight you are aware of the danger. if you are running around during a gun fight and your not involved bad you do get shot because of you having a gun out it could be solved with a simple chat on Teamspeak. BAD.. if you are running around with a gun on your back during a gun fight and instead of you walking away you are going to setup or get to a higher point then it dose calles on commonness, and lets be honest. if your not involved would you run on to a guy that is shooting or would you walk away? 

When it comes to drawing the line, everyone has different opinions and that includes staff and support members which is why its so hard to know if its a rule break or not. Different staff will say different thing, who do i trust? 

Again a valid point. The thing with this is that everyone has there view on things. if i say its common sense to shoot someone that turns around with a gun while you told him to put his hands up another member can say that the person could not have heard him and its rdm / fail rp becouse of the time given. 
The main problem is that these unwritten rules Cant be written because its life. The problem you would create by writing those rules is that it will be used to go Yolo.
a short example is the 5 sec rule from Vladic Ka, you need to wait 5 sec before shooting. i tell you to put your hands up and they turn around and shoot me within the 5 seconds. i get killed and you walk away.   This is one of the reasons why its so hard to write does rules and some of them will never be written. 
i do hope this helps on that part.
 

So saying youre "explaining some common sense" try putting your self in us normal players shoes who every week hears a different version of the rules and if we f*ck up we dont have a support/staff member to back us up.

i do, i am a 'normal' player im just as much as yourself or as the one next to ride a post on the forums . 
i do understand what you mean.. the difference is again coming from the what eyes the person is looking at. 
a short example again.. a gunfight started and the initiation was done on a car. 3 sec later the car was shot to shit.. (yes the post from Vladic Ka)  
I was involved as i was in the air during that time. i heard it all over teamspeak and i did not see any problems with it until i saw the actual video from there side.
As support / staff / management its Amazingly hard to get to the bottom of things so that a judgement is honest and fair for both parties. 
i have encountered many problems were i just needed a second opinion so that it would be fair. 
I believe most of the supports will not have a problem if you ask for a second opinion.

I or just random people i have seen has been shot on sight because they have a gun on their back although sometimes they dont even have that and they are just standing still and they end up getting shot. 

If you are shot withing being a part of it that a easy chat on teamspeak should resolve that problem.  if you are running walking standing still you should not be a threat and should be left alone bad confusion during gun fight is a real thing, contact the player that shot you and you should be able to work something out. 

And i DO think that this is a real issue which needs to be brought up within the UNMC and i know alot of people think like this. The UNMC needs to be a bit less trigger happy and "execution" happy because most of the time it feels like youre just walking around trying to find people to execute.

I think you need to speak to the Generals if you want to point out something that is Wrong within the UNMC. 
its the same as if you have a problem with another group, contact the lead and explain them the problem. 
I personally do not like to stated names or groups in a negative way. Contact the Generals or the leads of the group and chat about it.

Its not just that they're salty, my honestly opinion of what i have seen of the UNMC this last month is really bad,
worse than most gangs i see,
sure i have had some good rp with the UNMC but alot of the time it just ends up with them trying to find the tiniest reason to execute people.
Like for example "YOUR STANDING TO CLOSE TO MY FACE" *while pointing gun at you* *while standing 1-2 meters away from him*.
Or when you tell a UNMC member that he kinda looks like a potato and you end up getting executed for it.
It makes the UNMC look like all you care about is if you can break your record for "most executions in 24h" and that is not what this server nor the UNMC should be about.
I know i got WAY off topic but i think its relevant to how the UNMC act. (feels like i have written a short essay or a debate article)

Keep the topic on topic and dont start pointing fingers, if you think people do wrong talk to them. dont spread it out on the forums. 

@Tuplajuusto this is no offence to you, or to anyone for that mather. Its common sense.

@AntonWI highlighted some points you made. This is not against you bad im trying to explain some commonsense. if you do feel offended i apologizes.  "

Makes it look like you think of us as increably stupid or that youre stating that we dont have "common sense". And that i do take offence of. Although i do understand that its not what you ment.

I could have typed that a bit different, i see your point thanks