What's new
Roleplay UK

Join the UK's biggest roleplay community on FiveM and experience endless new roleplay opportunities!

I love how 'roleplay' is so subjective....

Raziel

Banned for Advertising
Location
Altis
Just done a massive coke run, you get your truck stuck in the drug dealer shack, the cops stop you, your weapon is out and you can't put it in your bag. You shout at them to put their weapons on the ground. One cop keeps his weapon pointed at you for around 10 seconds, the other cop decides to flank you. 

*ROLEPLAY TIME*

What do you decide to do?

a) wait to see how long it is before you get tazed by the flanking cop while the other police officer 'puts his weapon in his bag' 

B) decide to go all Ian Mckellen and method act and tell the police officer your whole life story - then get tazed by the flanking cop.

c) Waited 10 seconds for the cop to lower his weapon, notice the other cop has disappeared and decide to shoot the cop and evac while under tazer fire from the cop who flanked you... Because like hell you're going to lose 100k+ worth of gear.

d) turn around, bend over and let the cop have his way with you, because they are the law. 

*END ROLEPLAY*

Honestly I can only see one possible choice, but I'll open it up to you other guys/girls!

 
Last edited by a moderator:
f) Tell him to get his friend to come out and drop the tazer, and if he doesn't answer shoot him, then tell the flanking guy 1 last time to drop it, if he doesn't shoot him to.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
You are entitled to open fire on them since RP has already begun by them attempting to arrest you. Being in danger of death/arrest on the game allows you to open fire as part of the RP.

 
This is what I don't understand about some of the cops. For every good cop you get who sends you a "well played good shooting" text message after a gunfight or a 'incident' you get some who think because you didn't submit to the authority of the police you're being told over direct chat how it was 'poor roleplay.'

There is no way a policeman can say poor roleplay because they got shot for not putting a weapon away. It takes two seconds. 

I don't mind when the cops pull up to the coke processing and shooting begins, If I die so be it. It's against the law and I'm a damn rebel.

Also owning a Ifirit is illegal, it's a rebels choice to enter a town or drive it down a highway and expect the police not to be too happy about it. As long as you don't enter Kavalla and VDM to your hearts content you can pull the bad boys out and have a riot. Us rebels don't mind the police blowing up our ifrits and truck salt convoys (I'm looking at you Joshbond! that cost us so much money....) because we're driving ifrits down the highway at Sofia.

I mean jeez, we're rebels! we roleplay, but we don't conform to the laws of the corrupt state of Altis (unless you know it will get us banned!) that is.

edit: But anyway that's it. Roleplay is just so subjective...

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Down with the laws and the corrupt government that sets them..... Down with the pig pawns that poorly execute these injust laws!

Free Altis join the Rebellion and fight the cause.          KILL THEM!

Rebel  : A person who shows no loyalty to or tries to overthrow the established government of his or her country.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
FWIW, I have every intention of ending this kind of grey-area. Assuming I get backing from Wilco, I intend to create certain areas of the island that are 'free fire' zones, where RP is NOT a requirement prior to death. It's established purely by being in those zones.

I agree that one man's RP is another man's death sentence due to delay, in some cases. Meanwhile, it's ALWAYS the loser (the corpse) who complains about poor RP from killers... but killers never complain about poor RP from victims. Pattern? Yes. Of course.

So - given that we want to make some areas of the island 'Safe' zones, where some form of RP is an absolute requirement before any life-death situation, and the carry of guns is outlawed for rebels (risk of arrest, death, confiscation) and totally BANNABLE for civs who aren't rebels, it is only fair that we have 'let-off-steam' zones too. The flipside. Where, if you're there - cop, civ or rebel - you KNOW in advance that you are in a lawless frontier. A rebel-controlled, high-risk, virtually-deathmatch area, where there is no argument accepted from ANYONE if they get killed without RP or warning.

I think that's the only way of solving this - but others may disagree. By all means comment. Nothing's certain yet.

 
FWIW, I have every intention of ending this kind of grey-area. Assuming I get backing from Wilco, I intend to create certain areas of the island that are 'free fire' zones, where RP is NOT a requirement prior to death. It's established purely by being in those zones.

I agree that one man's RP is another man's death sentence due to delay, in some cases. Meanwhile, it's ALWAYS the loser (the corpse) who complains about poor RP from killers... but killers never complain about poor RP from victims. Pattern? Yes. Of course.

So - given that we want to make some areas of the island 'Safe' zones, where some form of RP is an absolute requirement before any life-death situation, and the carry of guns is outlawed for rebels (risk of arrest, death, confiscation) and totally BANNABLE for civs who aren't rebels, it is only fair that we have 'let-off-steam' zones too. The flipside. Where, if you're there - cop, civ or rebel - you KNOW in advance that you are in a lawless frontier. A rebel-controlled, high-risk, virtually-deathmatch area, where there is no argument accepted from ANYONE if they get killed without RP or warning.

I think that's the only way of solving this - but others may disagree. By all means comment. Nothing's certain yet.
I totally agree, illegal areas such as "Cocaine fields" etc.. should allow rebels to KOS any cop within 300metres from that area, as for drug dealers it should be the range within inside the building. There shouldn't be any role play in those illegal area's regarding cops and rebels, what are you going to roleplay, invite them over for a pick-nick party when both parties are holding firearms?

 
Just for ref - I wasn't talking about individual, small areas like the odd coke field or outside the dealer's place. I'm meaning whole areas of the map - the size of a quarter of the island, that is 'rebel controlled'; a no-go area for police (by that I mean that they risk life and limb just entering it, and they are as 'fair game' in a rebel zone, as a rebel would be in a normal civilian safe area).

At the moment, though - nothing is changed, so RP is still expected at places like the coke field. Cops will (or should) demand that weapons be put down before an exchange of fire; similarly, rebels shouldn't just KOS in places like that, really, because it's fairly lame either way. They should really call out to the cops that they have them in the sights of a nearby sniper (presumably the drug-pickers *are* smart enough to post guards, one hopes) - or even if they haven't, they would presumably hope to escape alive, or even be jailed or fined and hope to convince the cops they were just a hostage or an unwilling passenger, forced to participate through blackmail or at the point-of-a-gun, rather than risk everything and end up in a body-bag.

I know it doesn't always pan out how we intend, but there is far too much KOS happening already, and the truth is, it's pretty lame, usually. I wonder whether I ought to increase the effective in-game loss when someone dies (take some or all of their money as well as their kit, I wonder? Maybe not). But there is a temptation for players to simply use up NLR (assuming they abide by it) as if lives grew on trees.

In any case, I appreciate that in some places, there IS a need for a KOS zone - so I'm thinking large-scale. Somewhere the size of a whole corner of the island, rather than just a tiny patch. Obviously that part of the island would encompass a few relocated drug-production or gathering zones too... but we may make them less productive or less profitable than the 'civilian' zones, where the crops grow better or the demand is greater (simply because the cops hold sway and drugs are harder to get). We shall see.

 
I agree with having a lawless zone, I do however have a question/statement;

Obviously that part of the island would encompass a few relocated drug-production or gathering zones too... but we may make them less productive or less profitable than the 'civilian' zones, where the crops grow better or the demand is greater (simply because the cops hold sway and drugs are harder to get). We shall see.
No.
If anything they should be the same, or more.
If the collection and processing are both in a lawless area, and the drug dealers are still in major cities, it's effectively doubling the risk; chance of being capped for yo' powder and being subjected to police inspections. Hell even if a dealer is put in the lawless zone, the risk is still higher from people just camping it or simply crossing paths with you and *blap blap* respawn screen.

Obviously something like this (lawless zone) will need alot of ironing out, but it could definetly work.

It also could lead to some disagreement over where the lawless zone begins and ends; for example will we see a rebel and a cop facing off with the rebel just waiting for him to step over the imaginary line?

It's an idea that could benefit from whitelisting rebels, but that's a whole other debate and I'll leave it out of here for now.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Just for ref - I wasn't talking about individual, small areas like the odd coke field or outside the dealer's place. I'm meaning whole areas of the map - the size of a quarter of the island, that is 'rebel controlled'; a no-go area for police (by that I mean that they risk life and limb just entering it, and they are as 'fair game' in a rebel zone, as a rebel would be in a normal civilian safe area).

At the moment, though - nothing is changed, so RP is still expected at places like the coke field. Cops will (or should) demand that weapons be put down before an exchange of fire; similarly, rebels shouldn't just KOS in places like that, really, because it's fairly lame either way. They should really call out to the cops that they have them in the sights of a nearby sniper (presumably the drug-pickers *are* smart enough to post guards, one hopes) - or even if they haven't, they would presumably hope to escape alive, or even be jailed or fined and hope to convince the cops they were just a hostage or an unwilling passenger, forced to participate through blackmail or at the point-of-a-gun, rather than risk everything and end up in a body-bag.

I know it doesn't always pan out how we intend, but there is far too much KOS happening already, and the truth is, it's pretty lame, usually. I wonder whether I ought to increase the effective in-game loss when someone dies (take some or all of their money as well as their kit, I wonder? Maybe not). But there is a temptation for players to simply use up NLR (assuming they abide by it) as if lives grew on trees.

In any case, I appreciate that in some places, there IS a need for a KOS zone - so I'm thinking large-scale. Somewhere the size of a whole corner of the island, rather than just a tiny patch. Obviously that part of the island would encompass a few relocated drug-production or gathering zones too... but we may make them less productive or less profitable than the 'civilian' zones, where the crops grow better or the demand is greater (simply because the cops hold sway and drugs are harder to get). We shall see.
The issue I have here is that with violence and RP in a rebel zone would be good for mutual KOS between rebels and cops and promote RP outside or on the border of it(Rebel Checkpoint?),however RP should still be required between rebels in the territory otherwise your turning a corner of the map into a second rate wasteland server where everyone kills each other for money(which is exactly what people do in Wasteland Servers to buy guns,ghillies and whatever.),but this is meant to be a serious roleplay server.

 
FWIW, I have every intention of ending this kind of grey-area. Assuming I get backing from Wilco, I intend to create certain areas of the island that are 'free fire' zones, where RP is NOT a requirement prior to death. It's established purely by being in those zones.

I agree that one man's RP is another man's death sentence due to delay, in some cases. Meanwhile, it's ALWAYS the loser (the corpse) who complains about poor RP from killers... but killers never complain about poor RP from victims. Pattern? Yes. Of course.

So - given that we want to make some areas of the island 'Safe' zones, where some form of RP is an absolute requirement before any life-death situation, and the carry of guns is outlawed for rebels (risk of arrest, death, confiscation) and totally BANNABLE for civs who aren't rebels, it is only fair that we have 'let-off-steam' zones too. The flipside. Where, if you're there - cop, civ or rebel - you KNOW in advance that you are in a lawless frontier. A rebel-controlled, high-risk, virtually-deathmatch area, where there is no argument accepted from ANYONE if they get killed without RP or warning.

I think that's the only way of solving this - but others may disagree. By all means comment. Nothing's certain yet.
I think it's a great idea. There will be less people complaining about "poor roleplay" and in that way everybody has more fun playing the game.

 
Agreed that illegal activities such as drug farming and processing should be solely in these rebel KoS areas with the stores outside the rebel zone.

Money from drugs should be higher risk, with cops entering rebel area to bust people farming/processing, as well as other rebels looking to enforce their control on the fields. Drugs are too easy and this change would make legal work more appealing.

 
Agreed, I've always thought there should be more risk in drugs, that's why they pay so well surely. Good for gang and rebel rp too as said above.

 
Just to clarify a few points (bear in mind that these are still just 'my ideas' - I have no certainty that they will be implemented at all, let alone as I see them at the moment).

If we move any drug production/harvesting zones, it will be with the express intention of enticing people to continue their journeying. Ideally, I'd like choices wherever possible; some drug-farms in 'open territory', much as they are now - and some in rebel-controlled territory. Same with drug-processing - I'd like there to be a drug-processing factory or two in 'open zones' (not state-controlled cities, because that would make less sense - but in open country like now), and have drug-processor or two in 'rebel-controlled' areas. The difference between them would be (if I can code it easily) the drug-farms in open country would be more productive, per 'pick', compared to the rebel zone farms. Same with the drug processors - they'd be more efficient in the middle-class, open country areas (because they are deemed to have escaped the corruption and chaos caused by working and living in a rebel-controlled area in constant flux and instability). You'd get more output drugs for your input materials in the 'posh' processors, than you would in the rebel-controlled ones.

Finally, the dealers - there would of course be several dealers, and each would pay a different price to their suppliers for their product. The dealer in Kavala, say, which is a state-controlled city and thus subject to intense police scrutiny and a difficult place to 'score' in, would pay maybe three times what the dealer in rebel-controlled cities might pay. The rebel-city based dealer guy has no problem getting or selling drugs - he's in a rebel zone, and every rebel and his wife wants to sell him weed or crack - and there are no police clamping down on it all the time. He won't pay high prices... for him, demand is high, but supply is even higher...he can make a nice churn from the drugs that are sloshing around that area like water - why should he pay you top dollar for your weed, like the guy in Kavala does?

Obviously, this would leave the drug-lords with choices to make. They can go for the 'easy life' and make money locally, rarely if ever leaving the rebel zone, but won't make money at the same rate as the druglords prepared to take a risk, leave the comfort of their rebel-controlled foxhole, and come out into the 'world' to ply their trade.

To touch on Sovereign's point about this being a serious roleplay server - you are of course correct, but the reality is, trying to enforce that rule is pretty difficult. That's the whole subject of the OP's original post, after all. It's so subjective, and even when people do RP, there is a whole raft of different opinions about what's good, bad or indifferent roleplay, and what constitutes 'enough' RP to justify a killing or a battle. Speaking as an Admin, it's pretty boring and sickening sometimes to listen to the same playground whines - from old people and new - arguing the toss over who shot who first, who said what to whom and didn't hear it, who was using text while everyone else was VON, who shot too early, who took too long to reply, and so on. It gets pretty tedious, tbh, and it's impossible to be 100% prescriptive about all those things - it simply isn't realistic to make rules that include times, words, examples, and micro-manage all aspects of the RP so that everyone is satisfied.

The best we can hope for is that MOST people will RP seriously, and that we have a set of rules that enable us to VERY EASILY pinpoint the RDMers and VDMers without having to subject it to an Oscar Pistorius-like trial that lasts three months.

In the future, I would like to be able to just make the simple distinction that {a} non-reb-civvy in Kavala (and a couple of other cities), with a gun on show = instant RDM ban. {b} rebel in Kavala (or wherever) with a gun on show = police encounter, possibly resulting in arrest, fine, confiscation of weapon, jail, whatever).

Anything OUTSIDE the cities (but not in rebel-controlled free-fire zones), much less of a stringent requirement for RP, but still the stated intention that that's what we want. In clear cut cases of RDM/VDM, we'll still ban (anyone - civ, cop or rebel). In less obviously clear cases, we'll still do our best, but ultimately, people will KNOW that the hinterlands are not always 100% safe, and RP may not always happen during some robberies or assassinations if things go wrong (but ideally, some warning is preferable). Repeat breachers will soon be detected, and banned.

Finally, the rebel zones. If you're in there, you may die at any moment, without warning, whether you're a cop, rebel or civvy. If you don't want to play those odds, don't go there. As Sov said, it's Wasteland. We HOPE that the rebels will organise - form watches, patrols, cut turf out together, make agreements, have truces (or not) and that some level of 'mutual protection' forms organically - but civs can expect no help from the police (necessarily) in those areas. The police MIGHT come in there, but probably only in strength of numbers, and gunplay is a distinct possibility - perhaps even a likelihood. They might just stay out and let whoever's in trouble find their own way out... after all, it's signposted clearly enough as a 'bad place to be', so it's their own fault if a civ finds it is too hot to handle. They'll know not to return.

But this is the thing - Wasteland IS all about deathmatch. We recognise that some people (even the good RPers) sometimes get into situations where they're not fully RPing, or there is disagreement over whether RP has been established by someone following someone, someone running from someone, someone shooting warning shots at someone, and so on. If this happens in the rebel-zone in the future, then there'll be no argument - it's allowed - plain and simple. Of course, those who WANT to RP in the rebel zone still can (if they're good enough to convince someone to hold fire) - but it's not guaranteed, and Admins don't have to come in and wipe everyone's arses and listen to everyone whining if it all goes pear-shaped. People can LEAVE the 'Wasteland-style' rebel area any time they like. They'll just go out into the hinterland (if they want an easier life, but not one that forces them to abandon all weapons, or they can go all the way to the cities if the want police protection, unlimited peaches and harmony and happiness. This currently never happens on a Wasteland server, but it could here, which is why I think it has legs.

Finally - someone asked about 'state-line' type battles. I'll make it clear in the rules that although the lines are drawn on the map, they'll be broad-brush things, not hard lines in the sand. Border disputes will very likely happen, and yes, anyone standing on one side of the border willy-waving across the divide is still likely to get a sniper round in the face and be laughed at by Admins if they claim "I was inside the line". The moral will be, if you don't want your cock chopped off, don't stick it in the glory-hole. Don't even put it close. If you approach close enough to the borders to be shootable, you're in the de facto red zone, whether you're ACTUALLY in it or not. Think of it like a sleeping dog. Poke it with a stick - even a long stick - and it gets up and bites you, you still brought it on yourself.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I'm ok with it now that Ed explained the issues in great detail and more,as well as the ease it would give players and the staff. My only remaining concern lies with the old issue of state controlled area drug dealers since it was brought up. I believe they should be moved to the outskirts of town so people can properly defend themselves without fear of banning due to technicalities as I've stated once before due to two such events to which I went to the opposite drug dealer to prevent situations from occurring.

When I originally read the KoS available region and made the Wasteland comparison my head instantly went BLUFOR=Police OPFOR=Rebels INEPENDENT=Civilians and thought of the chaos that is the high number of unaffiliated "rebels". Now I just want to see what happens. On a final note,to all of you people who I would text at the cocaine processing to initiate RP and prevent "I didn't hear you" RDM claims,then shut yourselves in the building like cowards. You will never know I'm coming and I will be the last thing you never see.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Back
Top