Good initiation vs Bad

[James_W12345]

So I was having a discussion with my twitch viewers about what is good initiation and what is not.

As far as I understand it, "hands up or ill shoot" is considered poor initiation.....    so many people use other words, however IMO these are more or less the same as "hands up or die".

If you want to rob/kidnap someone then ultimately you are going to need to get them to cooperate, and it is a bit of a tricky situation to handle...

Say you want to kidnap someone (because just robbing is pretty poor RP IMO).... lets assume for a minute they dont want to be kidnapped, you are forcing them to do something they don't want to do.... one way or another you are going to have to get them to put their hands up and restrain them... you could ask them nicely but chances are they will either not believe you and if you arent forceful they will probably run away.

This can lead to 2 things... 1) you let them get away (or chase them), 2) you shoot them because "they didnt comply".

either way you dont get your way, and unless the chase is successful... you dont get your kidnap victim.

I think option 2 should be VERY rare, because this is an RP server, so just shooting because they run away is poor form IMO.. yes they didnt comply, but you can screw them over because you didnt get your way.

So this leads me to open up the discussion, what is the best way to initiate? 

Is some verbose variety of "hands up or ill shoot" any better? if so why?

 

[Samatlewis]

Just because you've delivered a threat it doesn't mean you have to follow it through..the other player reserves the right to do what they want and if they don't want to comply then fair enough, if they want to shoot you then fair enough, if they want to run away and hide at their nans house, fair enough!

There is no 'hands down 10/10 best way of initiating' because that's not even a thing.. people have taken 'initiating quality roleplay' out of context and changed it to 'initiating a gunfight'. If you want someone to do what you want out of force or fear you will 'issue compliance'!

If you've even been robbed/taken hostage by someone like @Ram it's often hard to realise until it's too late what has actually happened because normally he never even issues a threat or makes it obvious what is happening.. it's more a chaotic blur and bam you're in restraints having your watch stolen.. Basically each situation and every player will react different to the roleplay given by you.. if you entertain them for a little bit before turning around as Satan and robbing them they're more likely to take it with a pinch of salt than they are to do everything they can to kill you. 

 

[James_W12345]

True, I just see so many player reports where it looks like a rebel tries to rob someone, and after a few seconds of shouting, the victim gets shot for running away.

It is sad to see because neither side has engaged in RP, the victim is often poorer, but has cash or some valuable item and rebels just want it the easy way.

On other servers you almost never get robbed for an item or money, and if you are, it is well planned and executed.. this server just seems to be rife with "put your hands up or die" robbery as soon as you leave a safe zone.

I have a plan for an amazing kidnap RP scenario but ive still not been able to pull it off because most poor players are too afraid of getting something stolen (because of above) to cooperate with being restrained (and I let them run away cos i think shooting them for because they run away is very poor RP).

 

[Dredd]

Personally, for me, as much as I hate the term 'initiation' because in my mind it means your sole intention is to gain the ability to kill without breaking a rule, I believe that the reaction is what counts. 

If you threaten to cause harm to somebody if they fail to comply with your demands, while aiming a gun at them and they decide to run in zig zags rather than trying to talk you down, or complying, they deserve to be shot. In my mind, these are the people destroying the level of RP on this server, not the ones attempting to steal from them. 

As much as i detest the culture that's formed of late, it's the style people choose to play and not the rules that damage it. 

Back when I first joined this server, there were far fewer rules in place to protect people from RDM and other similar rules and yet there were still nowhere near as many dramas as there are now. By all rights, we could give somebody five seconds to comply with our demands if we so wished, not that many would even dream of doing so, yet rather than constantly hunting people running resources so they could hold them up and rob them, they participated in spontaneous rap battles and collected people to fight in the Marmite Pit so they could bet on them. I remember one such time when a handful of gangs each captured one hobo from Kavala, gave them a pep talk and promised payment if they could win 'our game'. 

Nobody involved got upset, nobody was reported, it was just a three hour long 'sporting event'.

The only thing that will change the way gangs and Police act, is people getting creative and trying to run little 'events' like this rather than just mindlessly looking to 'frag' people and take their shit.

I know a lot of people will see this and think, 'fuck reading that', and others will read it and think 'get with the times granddad', but something needs to change and I blame the 'initiation culture' for the decrease in fun, engaging roleplay around Altis.

 

[Hadi Doogle]

Roleplay is like acting in a play that isn't scripted.

You make your decisions as you play there is no best way to role play.

use your judgment, "hands up hands up." Is shit just I mean if you wanna have some fun 

"alright you literal illiterate hobo place your upper limbs behind your  hard empty Skull or I will detach your head and use it as a cereal bowl,"

 

[Tuna]

I do agree, the idea of initiation is supposed to be Roleplay, rather than a gunfight. This isn't what it means, and as Dredd said, it is just an excuse to shoot without breaking rules. However, things can be avoided. There are situations which would be so much easier if we could leave things down to common sense; but seeing how many people actually lack that, we need to restrict ourselves with rules.

If I'm chasing you in my car for 5 minutes, and it's clear you're running away and I'm chasing you, it doesn't make any sense that I need to wait for you to crash to hop out and tell you not to "drive off or your tyres will be shot". But we have to; otherwise people would just start shooting anyone as soon as they drive away. It's unfortunate that we cannot have nice things because someone, one way or another, will fuck it up for everyone else.

I love a good gunfight, don't get me wrong - I think most people do. I'm shit at shooting, and in a gunfight I almost always die with few or no kills to my name. It pisses me off when people say things along the lines of "gunfights aren't roleplay," because yes they are. Rebels and police would have small skirmishes in places like this; obviously not to the same extent, but this is a game, and a military simulator at that - people are going to want to shoot people and that shouldn't be discouraged.

However, the reasons behind these gunfights should be genuine, rather than the usually 'I literally just wanted a gunfight, to get some frags'. There are so many reasons you could have a fight with people, and there are genuine reasons; people being kicked out of a gang, robbing houses, personal crimes and vendettas - but these are never common reasons. Too often gunfights happen because people are too scared of losing things in a game, things that in reality don't matter in the slightest. If someone drives up to you and you're doing a run - so what if they're going to rob you - by jumping into your truck immediately and driving off, you are denying the chance of any quality Roleplay happening at all; and may as well not be here.

People are too scared of encountering other players because 8 times out of 10 it will result in death or loss of weapons/gear/vehicles; despite the fact that the people robbing have all of these things already. Recently I have gone off duty as UNMC a few times; and it amazed me that people would be so petty. Gangs which are large, and many of whom have the dodgy daves license, were spiking SUVs and Sporties just to try and snatch whatever guns they could; despite the fact they could gear up their friends 15 times over with the money in just a single persons bank. 

There is rarely any compromise during negotiations - nobody is willing to part with anything of value. Nobody considers the fun that could be had if during negotiations things were actually sacrificed to avoid a gunfight - they would rather just have a gunfight than wait it out; often resulting in much more loss overall. People honestly need to become much less concerned with their bank account, and more concerned about the standard of Roleplay they're giving out to other players.

Maybe I'm deluded, but where are the days of people surrounding weed processor, only to storm the building, and demand keys to the hobos truck in order to help them process? I haven't had an experience like that in a long time; but I remember whenever I did my heart would be pounding, and then the relief afterwards when I'm driving away twice as fast as I would have been if they hadn't helped. When I reciprocated these actions as a rebel myself; the gratitude shown to me was immense - kindness is almost non existent on this server; and if you look at complaints of new people who have had their bank accounts destroyed simply within Kavala by trying to buy trucks - it is very unfortunate and rather upsetting.

I will never forget the time when I crawled to weed processor, lock picked a mans truck and proceeded to jump in the back as he drove off. 3 minutes later he crashed, and I jump out, repair his truck with the toolkit so in my backpack, and jump back in like nothing ever happened. The man was so shocked, yet so grateful and we shared the profit he made; because without me he would have made nothing at all.

TL;DR - Is what you're doing benefitting anyone other than yourself, and is it something you'd be glad to receive yourself? Will the other person walk away feeling impressed, or calling you to the liaison room because the Roleplay you gave was that shit? 

This is a game, meant to provide entertainment. Are you fearing the state your bank account is in; or are you trying to entertain someone else and give them a good day?

 

[Singh]

[Meaningful wall of text]

TL;DR - Is what you're doing benefitting anyone other than yourself, and is it something you'd be glad to receive yourself? Will the other person walk away feeling impressed, or calling you to the liaison room because the Roleplay you gave was that shit? 

This is a game, meant to provide entertainment. Are you fearing the state your bank account is in; or are you trying to entertain someone else and give them a good day?

Not often do I find someone on the same page.  You sir are one of those rare individuals.

+1

Rules dictate the way the game will be played out.  When I last played, there were way less rules yet people still managed to refrain from behaving like complete imbeciles (some just can't help it) and everyone enjoyed the experience.  However now people are using their limited imagination to come up with very basic roleplay which most of the time ends up being a borderline bannable offence.

 

[James_W12345]

i think people are far too trigger happy on here.

they think because they have a gun they can and should use it.

I RP and more often than not I don't even have a gun. Maybe we could put robbing down the list of hierarchy in RP scenarios rather than "the most common occurrence in kavala"