DSGT Summers

[Lucas]

Name of the person you are reporting (in-game name): [DSGT] Summers
 
Time & Date this happened: 2015-07-24 14pm
 
Which Server did this happen on: 1
 
Description of what happened:
We did a bank job, one truck got stolen me and ben chased it down, then got it back and got killed when I was driving back.
 
What Rule Was Broken ?:
Rule 4 - Metagaming.
4C) Using tilde key for anything other than identifying people who break rules. (can not comfirm)
 
3B) RDM - Random Death Match
Have you tried to resolve with the player before posting?: Yes, he said that the drone was spotting me however, I spoke to the pilot of the drone and I was never even spotted by him or was I mentioned on comms.
 
Have you tried to resolve with the player before posting?: Yes, he said that the drone was spotting me however, I spoke to the pilot of the drone and I was never even spotted by him or was I mentioned on comms. I also did not like how he spoke to me when I was talking to a mentor about the situation.
  
Please post video evidence/screenshots here (I don't record but I have evidence shot by TI Rambo.)
http://plays.tv/video/55b24805d71daeb90c - Here you can see that we shot at the truck, and got it back from the chop shop.
 
http://plays.tv/video/55b248a2de1a3737cc - Here you can see me getting shot; They have no idea of who I am it was a different person who left the bank in that hemmt box so I wouldn't even be identifiable by clothing.
 
http://i.imgur.com/rcBMFDn.png - chat logs between Summers and Rambo.
 
This I want to point out here:
He said that I drove in the middle of a gunfight, If you drive through a firefight does that instantly give someone the reason to shoot you dead? I think not.
 
He claims he got authorization, to shoot at a civilian driving a truck, if that is so why didn't he engage on the rest of the cars that where driving passed the bank and only me?
 
"We were pretty positive it was him since we had a darter in the air" Pretty positive? I was driving a truck on the main road I could have been anyone and as mentioned above my conversation with the drone pilot proved otherwise.
 
Me talking to the drone pilot: http://i.imgur.com/JKKU9S6.png He said that he didn't see me.
(This is almost a must! without this you have no solid evidence, If your report is about RDM then it must be a video leading upto the RDM and after)
 
Video 1: http://plays.tv/video/55b24805d71daeb90c
 
Video 2: http://plays.tv/video/55b248a2de1a3737cc
 
Screenshot 1: http://i.imgur.com/rcBMFDn.png
 
Screenshot 2: http://i.imgur.com/JKKU9S6.png
 
(This is almost a must! without this you have no solid evidence, If your report is about RDM then it must be a video leading upto the RDM and after)
(This is not a PCC this is a player report please don't move it)

 

[Summers]

(This is almost a must! without this you have no solid evidence, If your report is about RDM then it must be a video leading upto the RDM and after)

Right - there is no direct evidence linking me to a RDM or Metagame, just simply your buddies shooting up cops 

Anyhow moving on - you were engaged for multiple reasons

No . 1 - We watched you leave the bank

No . 2 - We knew you potentially were a threat to me and my colleagues, since you slowed down right outside the bank which also meant...

No. 3 - You drove into an active firefight. Now if we see somebody in rebel gear that is  not the best impression is it? So when I requested permission to engage and it was granted I opened fire, so don't pull metagame on that one or RDM, you were shot since the shot was authorized by somebody on my radio frequency - since you were in rebel gear we thought you may have possessed a threat to us,  you also shared a striking resemblance to the gentleman who left the bank earlier on in a HEMMT BOX.

No . 4-  why are you reporting someone without direct evidence? at no point are you seen being shot dead as a said my first point 'there is no direct evidence linking me to a RDM or Metagame, just simply your buddies shooting up cops '

I did approach you on TS, and I agree I did get agitated when you spoke to me in a way that I disagreed with - you kept interrupting me and going back on my words, you practically didn't listen, I was even going to offer you comp. 

Anyway - if there verdict was to be that of RDM, surely it would boil down to the officer who accepted the shooting. As it would in real life if an officer made the wrong choice.

So in conclusion I believe I did NOT RDM nor metagame, since you were shot at the end of the day it would boil down to the officer who made the call to engage anyway.

Faithfull ~

Summers

 

[Lucas]

No . 1 - We watched you leave the bank

I was never in the bank.

No. 3 - You drove into an active firefight. Now if we see somebody in rebel gear that is  not the best impression is it? So when I requested permission to engage and it was granted I opened fire, so don't pull metagame on that one or RDM, you were shot since the shot was authorized by somebody on my radio frequency - since you were in rebel gear we thought you may have possessed a threat to us,  you also shared a striking resemblance to the gentleman who left the bank earlier on in a HEMMT BOX.

I am driving on the main road! Why don't you close the road off? 

Also the guy who stole the hemmit had rebel gear why didn't you shoot him?

So If I request someone on the radio to kills some one I should just do it? No, [TI] SGT Slickrick got banned for a misscommunication like this.

I did approach you on TS, and I agree I did get agitated when you spoke to me in a way that I disagreed with - you kept interrupting me and going back on my words, you practically didn't listen, I was even going to offer you comp. 

Didn't listen? Said that you were lying you bursted out in flames. In my opinion that is unproffesional.( @ could probably comfirm that if he wants to) And I don't care about the comp, I just want to know why I was shot, but since you started screaming at me I lost faith in you.

So in conclusion I believe I did NOT RDM nor metagame, since you were shot at the end of the day it would boil down to the officer who made the call to engage anyway.

Please provide evedence that you did not meta game me. You are changing story, It's funny how you didn't even mention the drone now. I would not waste my time, the admins time or your time If I rly thought the thing you did were ok.

I would also like to know who told you to kill me.

 

[AnonMember1]

I'am posting this as my input was asked. So please no warning point.

At the time of speaking to Lucas in TS I was messaging Summers. Hence why he came in the channel. I had sent Summers a message explaining the situation now in Summers defense he was going to and has been reported because of this therefore he was rather angry prior coming in the TS channel and did say something along the lines of "Don't let me in the channel or I will go off in one".

Also from a police perspective it is rather annoying when the negotiations are "We are taking all the gold". (Granted this isn't done often). This is why Summers was annoyed with the whole situation. 

However on the other side Lucas was being perfectly reasonable about the whole situation and I think this could easily be solved in a civilized conversation in TS. 

Cheers

Mentor

 

[Summers]

Well Lucas? do you have the evidence of not being there? or that I meta gamed or RDM'd you?

You made this report with evidence from your friends. From these recordings how can the admins not know you got out and punched me in the face?

There is in my eyes NO clear evidence of me committing any wrong doing - and if we are going to play that game -

Why did you return to the bank after being killed?

and Why did you come to the bank halfway through a situation?

13E) You may not write in sidechat that you are robbing the bank. This is your operation with the friends/members that are there with you. You may not call for backup, only those on site at the beginning of the heist may take part.

 
So, Mr Lucas I personally find your evidence invalid as none of it shows any of the situation. Just communications, in addition I have made the statement above without evidence, only an admin @The Riddler who can back me up on this one, so I cant make a report on yourself. 
 

I was never in the bank.

I am driving on the main road! Why don't you close the road off? 

Also the guy who stole the hemmit had rebel gear why didn't you shoot him?

So If I request someone on the radio to kills some one I should just do it? No, [TI] SGT Slickrick got banned for a misscommunication like this.

Didn't listen? Said that you were lying you bursted out in flames. In my opinion that is unproffesional.( @ could probably comfirm that if he wants to) And I don't care about the comp, I just want to know why I was shot, but since you started screaming at me I lost faith in you.

Please provide evedence that you did not meta game me. You are changing story, It's funny how you didn't even mention the drone now. I would not waste my time, the admins time or your time If I rly thought the thing you did were ok.

I would also like to know who told you to kill me.

Answering these questions.

We suspected you were part of the operation since its not every day a rebel drives past the bank with a HEMMT BOX, I requested too shoot and somebody in the channel granted it thus leading me to open fire. 

'So If I request someone on the radio to kills some one I should just do it? No, [TI] SGT Slickrick got banned for a misscommunication like this.'

We were in a tactical situation and we had to treat people in a hostile way - We apologise sincerely if you were to be killed however you drove into a situation AND into the line of fire of multiple officers. As I said I would have spoke to you however you never gave me a chance to with constant interruptions. 

'Please provide evedence that you did not meta game me. You are changing story, It's funny how you didn't even mention the drone now. I would not waste my time, the admins time or your time If I rly thought the thing you did were ok.'

You provide evidence that I metagamed you. Oh wait - we both do not have any

'I would also like to know who told you to kill me.'

If I knew mate, I would tell you, however in a channel with 15 + people it could have been a CSO who authorized the shot, and if this was the case he would be severely disciplined by both me and the commanders of Academy - it may have been a misunderstanding however as I said we could have talked this through.

'Also the guy who stole the hemmit had rebel gear why didn't you shoot him?'

Didn't know it was stolen, I heard take the shot when I requested it and thus opened fire. It was a hostile environment and I was taking SEVERE precautions. We didn't know what kind of weapon you might have been packing. It wasn't necessary right that I shot you in no way really, and I once again apologize for that. But at the end of the day - you drove through a hostile area AND my line of fire and shots were fired....

I offered to speak to you - you interrupted 

I offered you comp - you didn't last long enough without interrupting to hear the words.

And  I will tell you something now, is it right on a RP SERVER to basically say you want ALL the gold or else? I mean cmon man your guys honestly must have went in there knowing shots were to be fired - demanding ALL OF THE GOLD, again and again, and again.

Apologies you were shot - at the end of the day but there is no evidence of RDM or Metagame here really, I have served 7 months in the force - I have dealt with all kinds of rebels, and yes maybe this once I may have been sloppy however all I can do is be a man and apologise! 

Lets see what gets said.

Have a lovely day - 

Summers

 

[Lucas]

You made this report with evidence from your friends. From these recordings how can the admins not know you got out and punched me in the face?

You can see when rambo open the map and see me in the truck. And one again you change story, 

13E) You may not write in sidechat that you are robbing the bank. This is your operation with the friends/members that are there with you. You may not call for backup, only those on site at the beginning of the heist may take part.

 

I was in the hunter there ALL the time, so stop talking bullshit and come clean.

Like said, this could have been resolved, if you didn't lie.

 

[Summers]

You can see when rambo open the map and see me in the truck. And one again you change story, 

I was in the hunter there ALL the time, so stop talking bullshit and come clean.

Like said, this could have been resolved, if you didn't lie.

Not changing, just suggesting? + I didn't lie, Beercroft said, I was not very happy about the situation as a whole

But still @The Riddler can confirm you killed multiple members of the police force - returning after your demise.

 

[Lucas]

But still @The Riddler can confirm you killed multiple members of the police force - returning after your demise.

already resolved.

Bur for now I am done, and this can be locked until an admin will review it.

 

[Summers]

already resolved.

Well so this could have been if you contacted me directly asking for me to speak to you in a help office, I don't agree going in there like I did, however I was not really happy since we had an issue yesterday were you basically didn't want to RP - However I thank you for listening to me for the 30 seconds we lasted in that room, and once again

Have a nice day

 

[Neo]

locked for a lengthy review.

 

[Neo]

Evidence and sides being reviewed: 

1). Please provide evedence that you did not meta game me. You are changing story, It's funny how you didn't even mention the drone now. I would not waste my time, the admins time or your time If I rly thought the thing you did were ok.

2).I would also like to know who told you to kill me.

1). You're accusing him of breaking a rule, it would be upto you to prove this.

2). Would love to know this too.

[COLOR= rgb(191, 191, 191)]If I knew mate, I would tell you, however in a channel with 15 + people it could have been a CSO who authorized the shot, and if this was the case he would be severely disciplined by both me and the commanders of Academy - it may have been a misunderstanding however as I said we could have talked this through.[/COLOR]

This still concerns me, the only people giving kill orders should be those running the operation at a senior rank, if a cop told you to kill a restrained guy, you wouldn't do it..... 

My final statement at this moment in time until i speak to other admins is this.

Mistakes were made both sides. The rules are clear as day, they're in black, white and burple.

• When you die NLR takes effect... even after that 15 minute timer, you will have no memory of what happened there. So to return, would mean you've been called in as backup.
• In regards to the drone, there is no evidence of what communication actually took place, the pilot has apparently stated he was killed before he got to see you head toward the bank, however, a hemmt box has been stated leaving the bank area, then heading back towards it. It would be suspicious.
• Why oh why do people drive towards gun fights and expect to be totally safe thanks to an RDM rule?if there's a gun fight at copper trader, and i drove through the middle of it and got killed, is it fair for me to report them for RDM? or should I have heard the gun shots, and avoided the area like the plague?

[*]Summers, from what I'm told, a mentor was talking to the TI member when you jumped in. Being a mentor you should have known this was a silly thing to do, and should of at least asked to enter said channel
[*]^ That said, he has apologised many times in this thread and has offered compensation, but you seem more bent on getting him banned than just carrying on with your day.
A line has been crossed somewhere.

• Miscommunication about how to deal with bank jobs (such as returning to the scene), and orders to open fire. and whilst this was resolved by an IGA on the scene, it also had effects on everyone else's life/roleplay.
• Miscommunication from people in teamspeak to the officer in question (DSGT Summers) Whom asked openly to a channel if he could open fire and heard a "yes" and took it.

As for the evidence in the report, I'll state this. There is no context other than what has been stated by both sides. There's no video to show if the vehicle was traveling full speed, what the owner was wearing, if there was a gun sticking out the window, if it slowed down at the bank, if it was actually followed by another officer on scene.

Difficult report this one. will talk to other admins.

 

[Neo]

Final Note, if you use this play TV nonsense and plan to use it as evidence, GET IT SET UP CORRECTLY, nothing can easily be heard in these things.

 

[Steph]

I'd just like to bring up this .. because it confuses me somehow & I hope Summers can give an explanation:

1.

2.

3.

It would be nice if someone could explain this to me because I honestly have no idea what was going on. I also would like Kiarash to write and confirm on here what he said in the TS Logs.

Next thing is this:

Now NORMALLY I would just "ignore" this and blame it on the fact that those 2 people are having a little dispute right now.

BUT:

1. You are a Mentor Summers - the people that are here to SOLVE such things.

2. Mentors are just humans too so obviously sometimes they loose their nerves too & that is nothing that you can hold against a person BUT not even a week ago Summers, Fuel, Bob (all 3 Mentors) + Me & Ciaran had a conversation about this. Now I am not very happy that we agreed on that conversation to calm down and not overreact again  and yet - still I see something like this again. I know that you surely didn't have any bad intentions still it was even made public this time. I am not sure what to do about it and you obviously have the chance to say anything about this. Still I will have a word with .. Robert? (If he is still the Head-Mentor)

Unlocked ONLY for Summers, Kiarash, Lucas + Admins. ANYONE else will get a warning point.

 

[Summers]

1) I acknowledged we had a darter in the air - if we were to rewind the footage we would see what happened.

as of my mentor role, I did become moderately angered after I was accused of shit RP considering all the bank ops done now is I WANT ALL THE GOLD OR ELSE, so when the accusation of shit RP is thrown I admit I became angered. It is honestly quite hard to make me angry may I add, and Steph knows his after the way I forgive someone for being quite rude.

then Lucas did not contact me directly to discuss the matter,  then I learn that he may report me, at this point i was saddened and angry, since In my eyes i was being reported for doing my job - I was willing to discuss until you kept interrupting me.  As for Rambo chat I was midway through a firefight to my knowledge therefore I was rushing to help my colleagues whilst chatting to Rambo.

I acknowledge I am a mentor, however as you said I am a human - and as I am making the post I am celebrating my birthday with a meal. Like humans do, so anyway I was angered however I have never been so beg red as to insult either of them.

rest will be here soon tm when I get home

 

[Lucas]

then Lucas did not contact me directly to discuss the matter.

I did you said I drove into a firefight, then I discussed it with what he thought. You then came into our room without asking, started talking about the drone, I said that there was no drone, and that you were lying then you started screaming at me, and that was the reason why I reported you, I was going to talk more to you but I wanted someones else's opinion before I did it.

 

[Summers]

I did you said I drove into a firefight, then I discussed it with what he thought. You then came into our room without asking, started talking about the drone, I said that there was no drone, and that you were lying then you started screaming at me, and that was the reason why I reported you, I was going to talk more to you but I wanted someones else's opinion before I did it.

I did not start screaming. I did raise my voice but never screamed

 

[Lucas]

 I also would like Kiarash to write and confirm on here what he said in the TS Logs.

He can't see the report, but he msg'd you on ts

 

[Neo]

Going to deny this for now. This is primarily due to there being no evidence of what's actually happening at the scene of the incident, a video from a guy on the hill.

I will say that it isn't professional for a mentor to be acting on impulse, yes we are all human, but as a member of our support team, you should know better, and use another mentor to mitigate. I'll be talking to Robert to ensure mentors are aware of the image they hold and should project.

I'll also state in future sometimes it's better to bite a bullet and put your hands up and say if you could be wrong. We're getting conflicting information from "drone pilots" and all sorts... a better camera perspective would of really supported 1 argument or the other. 

Honest to say, I am a bit disappointed reading this report.

What I will point out is; 

13C) The Police will always send in a unarmed negotiator in a marked police car who will drive up to the entrance and make himself known. This is part of the treasury robbery process. You can either start roleplay with the negotiator, or decline negotiations by asking him to leave. You cannot kill him - he must leave, and if killed it is bannable. You also may not kidnap the negotiator.

although this may seem minimal, it is a bank job, and a serious matter for the island, and it's police force. It's their right to decline.

I will add that if this is being done purely for gun fights, bans will be issued.