Dr Coathangers P45

[cvppa]

I'm predicting a huge downvote on this, but thought I'd throw my idea into the forums anyway.

It might just be me - but I've never understood the value of dodgy doctor, being on both sides of being defibbed and dishing it out.

Sadly it appears on the report section of the forum all too often - issues at dodgy doctor - and both parties can be to blame.

The downed parties not wanting to lose their items, or would rather die and their inventory deleted than give it to whoever is trying to get it off them - so there is a lot of NVL.
On the other end of the situation - sayings have become commonplace on this server "get them to dodgy" "scoop them and get them dodgied" - we all know what it means - no one is looking to pay money for a defib to gain a few smoothies.

Now that's not to say that this happens 100% of the time, I imagine there are certain scenarios where dodgy doctor is used for good RP, but I think we would be naive to believe that its used for good roleplay more often than not.

Whilst I appreciate that RPUK is a game and should be treated as such - certain things should be accepted because "gaming" - the idea of defibbing someone who effectively has died of a stabbing, GSW, fall from a great hieght - doesn't seem all to realistic either.

I'd put forward that Dodgy Doctor get's removed all together and in place of that, to satisfy the needs of violent thieves, any player that is downed can be 'skill checked' and 'searched' via third eye - as with anything following a skill check, a loading bar will appear and depending on how long you stay searching - you can find a number of items in a players inventory - kind of like shops (33% 66% 99% etc)

What you find is random, you could walk away with a smoothie, fuel and a hairband, or you could walk away with weapons, ammo, armour - or any combination of any items that are in the inventory. (Or you might not walk away at all because someone has found you searching their mate and gives you a slap)

For the avoidance of doubt, I don't believe this should interfere or replace the mechanic where you can take a radio/smartphone/bodycam off people - that should stay as it is.

Pro's

- Less reports surrounding DD - free's up staff time.
- RNG searching imo is more exciting

Con's

- Dev time
- Some people won't like it

 

[Qrow]

I pop in and out a lot but all the same my $0.02 is that I value the suggestion of removing the dodgy doctor it's not a great source of gang on gang interaction, but the suggestion of what will effectively amount to low RP "Looting" in it's place is a bit meh.

You'll effectively have a group of 20 WL gang members potentially chain-gang looting a group of downed people they've taken away from the scene, then to be thrown in the ocean.
Even if you made this so a player could only be searched once per downed state by anyone, this would be abused or still result in them being looted and tossed in some form or other.

I think the idea behind the suggestion is great, but it perhaps needs better execution.

 

[cvppa]

I hear what you’re saying 100%

I’m sure the rules or process could be tweaked so it’s not abused as much - but I’m not 100% sure how.

Off the top of me head, you could make it that you can only search people where they fall - the option goes away if you move them somewhere quiet etc.

Idk, all I know is Dodgey Doctor needs removing.

 

[Ollie Just]

I personally do not believe this system requires much change. In fact i would argue that the Dodgies provide a chance to give detailed and engaging rp. The fear i have with only searching them where they fall is the kill - loot scoop - run and provide no rp. Additionally where they fall may be in an area extremely hostile and risky to take their items - Additionally you may simply want to have the person alive, the dodgy is not simply about having the players inventory, however having that person alive will help create the rp you may need. If you remove dodgy doctors - how will the people be revived? Hence the "secret" locations in order to revive said player.

I do not believe we need to change the system as the people are the issue and performing the NVL. Perhaps it invites the players to do so, however this is up to the person to realise winning is not everything and actually provide the necessary rp. Perhaps in specific scenarios of blatant avoidance off rp, harsher sanctions could be imposed which could act as a deterrence to this continued behaviour.

I dislike the RNG idea, whilst may seem cool or enjoyable, if im looking through someone's pockets i will find what i find.

However i do understand your point about the defibs, someone riddled with AR bullets probably is not going to survive getting to a dodgy and being "defibbed" back to good health, so perhaps their could be a scope to add elements in the process.

I agree the "idea is great" but needs a deeper level of guidance and a different method to go about it.

 

[cvppa]

I personally do not believe this system requires much change. In fact i would argue that the Dodgies provide a chance to give detailed and engaging rp. The fear i have with only searching them where they fall is the kill - loot scoop - run and provide no rp. Additionally where they fall may be in an area extremely hostile and risky to take their items - Additionally you may simply want to have the person alive, the dodgy is not simply about having the players inventory, however having that person alive will help create the rp you may need. If you remove dodgy doctors - how will the people be revived? Hence the "secret" locations in order to revive said player.

I do not believe we need to change the system as the people are the issue and performing the NVL. Perhaps it invites the players to do so, however this is up to the person to realise winning is not everything and actually provide the necessary rp. Perhaps in specific scenarios of blatant avoidance off rp, harsher sanctions could be imposed which could act as a deterrence to this continued behaviour.

Thanks for the input - it's all about discussing it and hashing out the finer details.

I agree with what you are saying with that Dodgy Doctor gives the chance to give detailed and engaging roleplay - but the argument falls short when it isn't used for that purpose, you only need to look over the reports from within the last year to see this.
Like I say, I've been on both ends of the situation - good rp, bad rp, revived someone, being revived - and generally I think it does more harm to the server than good.

Just because the chance is there, doesn't mean it's taken the majority of the time.

You're quite right in what you are saying - it's people that are the issue with this and this is supposed to be an 18+ server full of adults however the sad reality is that not everyone can be trusted and it's as simple as that.

The idea of only being able to search someone in a hostile environment (where they have been downed) - that's intentional, the whole process is a gamble, you might not get what you are looking for, you might end up with something decent, you might get caught - do you take the risk?
For me, the idea of karting someone off to a corner of the map so they won't be disturbed, to revive a player and take their items and making them walk back to city, not great RP.

As for wanting people alive - there are 3 hospitals on the map, along with some fantastic NHS staff. 2 of these hospitals are barely used in comparison to Pillbox - why not take the person you need alive to a hospital? - Risk getting caught on cameras? Or call in a dispatch for an NHS member? - An argument could be made that players don't have to check themselves in, but that then boils down to who is willing to provide the RP and who isn't.

Overall I think dodgy doctor eliminates a lot of risk, promotes sub par roleplay and is generally abused to turn downed players into loot boxes.

 

[Ollie Just]

Thanks for the fast responce!

I agree adding a risk element to searching someone would make people more weary whether to appraoch or not. Additionally the discreet location and the long walk home (Trust me ive experience the worst of it haha) is not the most fun either.

However your responce to taking them to the hospital imo doesnt remove the problem. Those who are bound to NVL are not going to check in. Additionally there is no rule against not checking in so even the average joe may not partake in checking in. furthermore, the player does not have to accept a carry to the check in desk either, or could accept to the desk, wait to they get bored and leave, then check in.
I just believe there's too many elements to be exploited with this idea. if people cannot be trusted, there is sanctions in place retrospective to their actions.

I do like the idea of using NHS to do "dirty work", perhaps you kidnap them or they themselves rp as a dodgy doctor (however idk if this is allowed).

I do see how obtaining items from someone's downed body may need a change, however im not sure entirely this is the way to go about it, perhaps adding a new npc or mechanism to get what you need could be an idea. The gamble doesnt seem realistic to me hence my disagreement as well as it causing a repetitive nature of rp, yet i can see it being somewhat enjoyable.

Another point i would like to add is not being revived eliminates all chance for the "victim" arguably in certain scenarios there may be a window of opportunity, however if not revived and simply looted, the player can do nothing and just accept it. I believe there needs to be some consideration of fairness and balance to this.

I agree sometimes dodgys are used to turn players into lootboxes so maybe there must be more steps to obtain defibs rather than 50k and done. Purhaps reducing the number of dodgys could support this however i believe the rotation that is implemented is ok - though may need updating/changing.

 

[rabsterdam]

I can see the argument from both sides. As Cvppa has already mentioned, issues at dodgy appear on reports all too often.
In my opinion, as the process stands its just breed toxicity from both sides and is generally immersion.

Some of those being dodged understandably don't want to lose the items they have grafted hours for and will look for what they feel is a justified opportunity to prevent that from happening which more often that not just leads to breaching NVL. Others just want to get quick win over those trying to take said items and will take the piss by wasting time, purposely breaching the NVL rule and on occasion, metagame their location to those in their group.
Those who are completing the resurrection are the vast majority of the time, focused only on the items they stand to gain and more often than not, provide no to sub par roleplay to justify their actions.

From a staff PoV, I can understand this is what appears to be the next best thing to openly allowing people to simply take items from a downed body directly as this in turn leads to constant pocket wiping. Even if there was a rule to prevent this, as stated above, people just can't be trusted and I imagine this would just lead to more and more reports.

I believe some sort of change would benefit the server as a whole.
Currently anyone and their granny can just scoop a body, go to a dodgy and use a magic defibrillator to get someone on their feet; be that from being bonneted by a car to being shot in the face with a high powered weapon.
Rather than removing the dodgy doctor, I feel that adding to it could be the solution.

Instead of getting a defibrillator and zapping someone, could the system not be tied to the current "medical knowledge" system that is in place for treating injuries and bleeds?
You take your victim to the dodgy doctor who can provide a list of injuries that the victim has and said injuries can then be treated before some sort of skill check takes place where the higher your medical knowledge, the more likely you are to be able to treat the wound.
From here you would then go on to the usual defib process and the more severe the initial injury is or if you have failed your skill checks badly treated the initial injuries, the less likely defib process is to work.

This way the injured party gets the medical roleplay we all like to receive in these situations and the party that stands to gain from the interaction has some increased risk to having to stay at said location for an extended period of time thus allowing time for any remaining gang members to search known location and even for police to have a chance at apprehending missing persons. Additionally I feel this would lead to more use of pharmacies for specific items to treat specific injuries.

 

[qaws]

Idk mate, might be playing devil's advocate here but if we do this we might as well start holding peoples hands in RP. It's a game feature. People shouldn't be dense and break server rules. The problem isn't dodgy, the problem is people losing gear and losing a situation. THAT'S what needs to be fixed. If anything staff should be more severe with punishment in that regard to counter the "gear fear so just NVL" or "don't wanna lose so just NVL" situations. Or perhaps focus more time in staff cam spectating these situations. Even some reports at dodgies that do NOT get accepted (or even the countless ones that don't get reported!!) are still (in my opinion) terrible RP purely focussed on winning. Why change a game feature (that's there for a reason because there's no inherent robbing system in RPUK) because some people can't behave?

 

[Ollie Just]

Well put and stated, i entirely agree like i said the people are the issue and as a community this NVL agenda must change. Similar to how (G3.1) OOC Information Permanent ban changed to have a 1 month cooldown last November, perhaps NVL rule needs harsher punishments.