Discussion: How to stop people from caring about losing situations?

[Stevie]

Question mainly directed at gangs, police and any other whitelisted groups in the server.

What's the main reason, that's stopping you from enjoying the RP scenario when you lose, and what do you gain from winning? What would make you care less about losing a situation and enjoying it more?

(My) Gang / Org Perspective:
Being part of the Apostles since the beginning, and now the Coalition. The server is run by gangs and the main objective for each gang is to stack up that weapon arsenal, deal and sell drugs and beef other gangs right?. No matter which way you look at it, you have to grind to get any of these things and it's not easy, it's VERY time consuming. When it comes to gang wars, if you don't have any of these things, you're irrelevant and of course this point doesn't stand if gangs do melee. The fear of losing anything is just over the roof in these situations and you can't avoid it with the police always prowling about trying to snatch anything possible. I can definitely see why gangs would always want to win something like this because losing just means wiping all the stuff the gang has worked for so hard. It shouldn't be like that. 

The buildup is always enjoyable prior to eventually turning it into a war if necessary. As soon as war gets on the way, people start getting salty, reports start flying in and people start looking for excuses saying "this person broke this rule" or "this happened, I didn't like that" because assets have been lost. Don't get me wrong, it sucks. I've been through many grind fests and losing stuff isn't the end all for me but I'm sure it can be for some other people. I've come here to chill, enjoy my time and learn how to RP (also one of the main reason why I use a bat for anything and everything). Dedicating my time to grinding for expensive things like these is just straight up out the window.

I feel like if there was a way for gangs to use pistols that are not as expensive as 250k, it would make everybodys experience a lot more enjoyable and less stressful (perhaps you disagree). Even crafting engraved pistols for gangs for a lot less cheaper so it can be easily affordable to bring you through a war (that's another suggestion in itself though). 

Thanks,
-Stve

 

 

[Father]

I have never really bothered about losing stuff / losing situation as long as its fun and good RP , I would give away anything if its good RP 

 

[Ade]

Had a thought once about making the suggestion of retaining your inventory when you die. I also figured I would be crucified by the community if I made such a suggestion.

I think honestly it comes down to each individual about what you're willing to lose in the name of good rp. Or more so how attached you are to certain items, perceived value and all that. It'd be nice to see some of the grind reduced for sure, on that I fully agree.

I realise the above idea might turn off people who are NHS as everyone could just respawn on death potentially but I still think it could potentially solve a ton of issues, reports etc and potentially make for a less toxic atmosphere from a lot of folks. Less combat logging, less salty reporting, less negativity generally. However I feel this is a majorly drastic step and might change the entire paradigm of how the server is played by the majority.

That said the only way you could lose items is either through confiscation in some way (robbery or arrest) or hopefully very little occurrences of a possible bug.

By removing some of the cost/grind though there are always people who are just going to min/max regardless and this could lead to a prolific spate of firearms offences and revert the server into a wild west shootout scenario. Ive seen comments from the staff team before, (possibly charles vane) that they do not want to see that happen.

Either way there are a TON of pro's and con's to the idea. The reason i share is to see what everyone thinks about it.

 

[Albert Winsford]

I used to have the mindset of i dont want to see my stuff disappear as a gang member as i had worked relatively hard for the stuff i had obtained but 14 months on i do not mind losing everything in the interest of RP. I do agree weapons should be cheaper but its always going to be a balance a server will never get right in its current state, things get cheaper, people have too much cash, things get expensive, people ditch roleplay to grind for cash.

I once considered suggesting the gang engraved weapons be very cheap to make or buy but can only be given to those on the F6 menu and untradable to those not on the F6 or just "jam" if used by non-f6, meaning gangs can't profit from selling these variants of weapons but it also means gangs spend less time crying about losing guns and situations because they can continue to have that easy access to at least a gang affiliated weapon and when it comes to losing a bigger gun they would just have to suck it up.

 

[DJ]

2 Parts to this one

1) i Agree i think gangs should be able to make more of there own engraved guns easily, then it's up to you what you do with them, you want to sell them thats fine, but when barry the local drug dealer gets pulled over with a Triad pistol who do you think the cops are going to come after!

2) Wars on the server seem to be pointless? Don't think i've seen one with any rp background at all other than one of them robbed us or beefed us on tweedle? God damn if i was throwing away 10/20 million worth of weapons on a war i would want a bloody 3 month lead up of rp to that, just seems people get bored and think right who do i want to annoy this week until i can get a reaction out of them.

(My Opnion not of the staff team)

 

[JB_]

The only time I'm ever annoyed about losing something is when the opposite side's pure intention is to take that thing and throw the rest of the RP out of the window or if I lose something to something that just doesn't make sense in RP. If people prioritise stealing a pistol for example and they are like oh shit now we have to RP a little bit lets go talk to him for 10minutes before we dump him, its just boring and annoying. Otherwise I don't really care and lose far too much personally haha.

I once considered suggesting the gang engraved weapons be very cheap to make or buy but can only be given to those on the F6 menu and untradable to those not on the F6 or just "jam" if used by non-f6, meaning gangs can't profit from selling these variants of weapons but it also means gangs spend less time crying about losing guns and situations because they can continue to have that easy access to at least a gang affiliated weapon and when it comes to losing a bigger gun they would just have to suck it up.

I also do like this idea, It makes sense for gangs to be running around with their own engraved pistols and it also adds some traceability for the police. They should be more accessible for gangs for sure.

 

[Bmav]

I once considered suggesting the gang engraved weapons be very cheap to make or buy but can only be given to those on the F6 menu and untradable to those not on the F6 or just "jam" if used by non-f6, meaning gangs can't profit from selling these variants of weapons but it also means gangs spend less time crying about losing guns and situations because they can continue to have that easy access to at least a gang affiliated weapon and when it comes to losing a bigger gun they would just have to suck it up.

I kinda of agree with this tbh , this way even if 1 gun gets cheaper for the gang you cant really profit out of it by selling it to other people.

But also maybe have a way to fix them that still forces them to go trough the regulated gun market.

 

[CodyLtd]

Counter argument, Its meant to be a UK server, not a US server. Guns are meant to be hard to get. : ) 

 

[Edwago - R Henderson]

I kinda of agree with this tbh , this way even if 1 gun gets cheaper for the gang you cant really profit out of it by selling it to other people.

But also maybe have a way to fix them that still forces them to go trough the regulated gun market.

Agree with this also ^ cheap gang pistol almost just for show and gang prowess, its up to me if i deem a situation is worth risking my big guns for " well Rped war etc "

Ballas and Grove just got the mellee beef going, which is really fun for both sides and has been RPed

Counter argument, Its meant to be a UK server, not a US server. Guns are meant to be hard to get. : ) 

Gangs in the uk have no problems gettings guns, there is a documentary on Netflix called armed and dangerous if you wanna check that out xD 

guns for people not in gangs on the other hand, very hard to get. People not in gangs in the city should be more scared of gangs - if you rolled up to a turf IRL in the UK, youre likely to get stabbed / shot.

 

[ErnieW]

Counter argument, Its meant to be a UK server, not a US server. Guns are meant to be hard to get. : ) 

The average constable doesn't carry a firearm in England either. It's a UK based server that tries to be faithful to British culture. Creating a faithful representation of UK culture while trying to make it enjoyable for everyone is a delicate balance. Firearms are a useful tool in roleplay when implemented correctly.

 

[Bart Green]

Counter argument, Its meant to be a UK server, not a US server. Guns are meant to be hard to get. : ) 

Classic cop opinion, doesnt mind walking round with his glock 24/7 though

 

[Liam]

I don't mind losing items when I've been on a crim character unless the RP has been dreadful and rules have been broken such as RDM. Making the engraved pistols a lot easier to obtain would be a good suggestion to lose the win mentality, however I don't wish to see other guns drop in price for two reasons:

1. UK Server, I'd love to not carry any firearms as a police officer. It's why I joined RPU and was dedicated at staying in RPU for my time on the server due to the immersion and guns were scarce back when I joined.

2. I remember when every baldy started getting guns from the public benches, rocking up to a traffic stop where the guy has went through a red light and he's just forced a gunfight out of this when he was most likely getting a ticket, this happened a lot even with gang members and there argument was 'Ah its okay, I've got 20 more standards'.

When public benches were a thing, people cared less about losing these items but it made them not scared to use them as they already had a stockpile that they would just go back and get rinse and repeat. It made a lot of the RP scenarios tedious and annoying as we were coming more from a UK server to a US server.

IMO -

I think people just need to not care about losing an item that you've grinded for, instead think about the RP that you're getting from having this gun. Sure it may be bad and you can always speak to the individuals involved and or report them for their Poor RP but when it's good, are you not having a good time? You could say I'm biased due to me mainly on my Police character but this is untrue, I used to be a gang member more frequently than Police as Triad and as a Ballas member and I used to get smoked and dumped all the time as I'm washed as fuck, due to me being here for RP not for gunfights.

Sure, its annoying that I lost a Glock and 100 Bullets because I escaped my kidnappers and fell into water but you get over it, You'll be on this server for years? You have all that time to grind for that item? You could be more smart whilst going up against the police, gangs, baldies.

A lot of the time on as Police, the majority of people that I've caught with a gun have whipped it out in public, on their turf, at hospitals, on the road side near a high pop area, have a hostage in a pharmacy and their choice of car to escape in a shitty local car.

 

[Stevie]

I think everything that I wanted to say about the engraved and guns in general, @Nice Guyhas summed it up. 

I'd also prefer if people answered the question first (which some people already have done, thankyou) before giving your opinions on other peoples points. We're going to get more out of this post that way xx.

 

[Bmav]

I don't mind losing items when I've been on a crim character unless the RP has been dreadful and rules have been broken such as RDM. Making the engraved pistols a lot easier to obtain would be a good suggestion to lose the win mentality, however I don't wish to see other guns drop in price for two reasons:

I agree that guns shouldn't be easily accessible to randoms, hence why the suggestion for the engraved to be cheaper to gang members because technically speaking these days a random baldy can pay the exact same price (or only like 20k more expensive) as a gang pays for a gun if they have the contacts which if you ask me shouldn't be happening.

And if the engraved went down in price or materials you need to make it, but  the prices of the other guns will still remain unchanged because the market is regulated by devs/staff and as for the problem of people selling engraveds thats why it was suggested that they either break when someone (thats not in F6) picks them up or when they are dropped, but with a chance to fix the gun (different than what the gang produces it for).

And if you think about it people or gangs will think about it when they lose their engraveds because feds will be aware of who is using it or who manufactured it and there is a consequence of using them. (obviously considering that they could be fixed in my suggestion than it would have to be more of an investigation by the cops instead of jumping to conclusions straight away)

Sure, its annoying that I lost a Glock and 100 Bullets because I escaped my kidnappers and fell into water but you get over it, You'll be on this server for years? You have all that time to grind for that item? You could be more smart whilst going up against the police, gangs, baldies.

I will just say it this way i see what you mean that its fine to lose what you grind for if you get RP out of it.

From how i see it this way when you have to grind 3-4 hours to get the cheapest gun and still have to keep up with the other gang activities than its gonna end up being more of you grinding and doing money alone by selling to locals, taxi , fishing for the potential RP of like 20 minutes with a gun and of corse people get salty if the 4 hours they wasted gives you  20 minutes that you were supposed to have decent or good RP and sometimes you don't get that RP. So you basaclly can end up wasting 4 hours and 20 minutes for nothing.

My point being: the reason why most people get salty when they lose it's because they will have to go 3-4 hours without RP just selling to locals or doing something else to get money and than have RP for 20 minutes with what you grinded for.

Gonna give you an example Liam  cops when they got kidnapped and robbed 24/7 you guys probably wasted around let's say 1 hour of bad RP maybe a bit more but for the average gang member we waste hours of no RP to be able to get RP if you know what i mean and also with the other potential repercussions like scraps , huge fines (not gonna mention jail sentences because i think most of them are fine how they are) but the time wasted by the average gang member is way higher than the average cop, NHS or groupe6.

(I am not by any means saying that it was fine for people to be kidnapping cops 24/7 i already said i disagreed on the way it was happening)

 

[Ade]

Can't control human nature. Too many variables in each and every person. 

So it boils down to 2 possible solutions, which is basic risk management. 

Mitigate the risk of losing items by either eliminating the risk all together or by reducing the impact of loss, by shortening the grind to replace items.

I dont see any other arguments in this. 

 

[Rot]

What's the point in winning if you could never lose.

For me RPUK is all about creating a narrative and having a laugh. I've been around for like 5 months ish but I've only had a few interactions with the heavier criminal side of the server.

There have been two times where I've technically 'lost' but have really enjoyed those scenarios. One being a hostage when Triads did life invader. Police already were inside the building and then had another unit pincer from behind, but they couldn't move in due to the hostages. The other time was being kidnapped by the firm for my escapades as Big Ploppa, being dangled over acid and other classic mob stuff.

I enjoyed those scenarios because it was more than being rammed of the road and being demanded for all my stuff or some baldy coming up to Auto Exotic and stabbing me. There was an actual interaction and a cool narrative.

 

[Gecko_]

All that matters is the situation was fun and both sides had a good laugh. It's shit when you lose a scenario that was forced and had shit rp, but live and learn

 

[Haza]

I don’t think anyone should/would care if they loose a valuable asset if the RP scenario was enjoyable for all parties.

Guns are very time consuming to get. For just a standard pistol it will take 2-3 hrs of grinding selling coke. For someone to then loose it after all that hard work can be demotivating depending on the situation. When everyone could craft guns I agree that it was too easily accessible and everyone had stacks upon stacks of standards. However the changes made were too extreme. I love luke/alberts suggestion about the gang engraved pistols I think that would be a very good addition. I also think the whole gun (pistol) crafting should be reviewed and possibly changed.

 

[aqnr]

I honestly believe that there should be more things to do as a civ and crim, I can understand that there are things that DEVs are very busy with example being bug fixing and therefore making it hard to continue producing these new content. But I really do feel like there needs to be a balance between drug selling and taxi jobs at the moment because I really feel like most civ jobs pay more than crim. On the other hand, people may argue that they don't mind selling drugs for 1-3 hours just for a small pay check because they would want to become friends and build relationships around these groups and have more roleplay around these specific places around LS.

Reading these comments will make you realise that everyone has specific arguments around winning and losing situations because of their RP choices. In my opinions, I believe that if you are carrying a weapon doesn't mean that you should act different in a way that makes you look like the bigger man. It very rare to see people act nice and non threatening whilst having some sort of self defensive options. 

As my final statement, I truly believe that there isn't much roleplay involved in gun/knife fights because both it just ends up as an OOC issue where the loser ends up in the TS room and nothing is changed.

PS: Please make a rule about people selling drugs around on the Highway near Coalition, if someone dies because of an incoming car, it should really be their fault, but that's just my opinion.