Complaints of police conduct - scrapped heli

[JT77]

Hello
I apologize in advance for my poor English and I do not know whether this section is suitable for my complaint. I would like to receive the comments of the police and the owner of the server.

Without proper investigation of me was scrapped Hummingbird.

In the night from yesterday to today (00:30 CET / 23:30 GMT) near a police station in Kavala came together a lot and police arrested several people. I'm curious citizen Altis, I came to the heli closer and watched the action. For a minute I watched the action and several police officers wrote to me that I have to leave the airspace because of police action. I missed not respond and I was shot and my Hummingbird on the ground exploded. I lost equipped with about 60K
After respawning I read that my heli was scrapped. Indignant, I contacted the police and was labeled a spy / scout. This is unacceptable.

In any case not because of unfounded accusations to someone scrapped assets.
I understand the situation when committing a serious crime (drugs in the car, attack with Ifrit) but you can not make the property was scrapped only thanks to the suspicion of espionage.
The penalty loss was to be equipped, destruction heli, adequate financial penalty but not scrapped heli.

So I urge investigation and restoration of Hummingbird or money (400K) and an apology police officer.

Helicopters is my work means I can not afford to lose it.

Thank you and have a nice day.

Heli Assistance Service.

In game nick: Jeytee1977cz

Arma III ID: 76561198016085630

 

[JT77]

In-game name: Jeytee1977cz

Your player ID (copy from your arma 3 profile): 76561198016085630
 
What was lost: Hummingbird
 
Value of item/money lost: 400 000

Quick description of what happened: Unauthorized scrapping of property without investigation.

 

[Heatproofsean]

flying in the Green Zone is illegal. And anyone who does so can be shot at by police (warnings are usually offered first, like you said). You didn't respond, and were therefore shot upon. 

Any helicopter, working or not working found inside the green zone is typically crushed on sight. As per the laws of Altis. 

If you missed the chance to respond, it's only your fault I'm afraid.

 

[JT77]

It was outside the green zone, near Kavala new police headquarters.

Despite the fact that I was on a deserted area of ​​police action did not last 5 seconds. Last officer wrote to me and the first officer shot me. I also feel that sometimes fired before a warning. So how many offenses committed I am and how many police officers? Decides none of my conduct was not the scrap heli, I insist.

Therefore, I request an investigation, restoration and apology.

 

[Bawb]

You were hovering above a small warzone, ATWA had surrounded the police headquarters and a fire fight broke out, it's incredibly dumb for you to be hovering above it especially at the height what you were (below 100m), hinting that you were a scouting chopper for ATWA. The fight went on for at least 10 minutes. You were warned by me and other officers to leave which you did not, therefore you were shot down. As you were under the suspicion to be with the attackers your chopper and theirs were scrapped.

Also, you were on the border of the greenzone, even going that close is not smart.

 

[Maratek]

Investigation mode engage!

Right right from my point of view and that of several officers there was a major incident. Involving a rebel gang attacking a police base, did you think this was wise? I know humming birds are loud but you would of heard gunshots, sirens seen the lights and the muzzle flashes and from what I can gather you were low very low, were you spotting reporting police positions for the ground squad? Doesn't really seem that way. Imagine it from a police perspective,

guns going off people screaming in pain bodies pilling up backup is five minutes away, pow the officer next to you dies. You look up a small unmarked helicopter is hovering with a pilot. You see his lips move in his headset bang another cop dies there are only a handful left now. He whips out his cell phone on the off chance the helicopter is in the wrong place at the wrong time types a quick message, he hits enter and looks up to see you glance at your own cell phone, a few seconds pass by and nothing no altitude gained no rotating just hovering reporting or so it seems. Bang another officer dies the. Officer looks up, weighs his options and takes the shot. He watched it hit the ground in a fiery wreck, the officer grinned for a moment before levelling his sights on some rebel scum.

That's how I see it, don't get me wrong you hear gunshots everyone always wants to have a look, but I think people forget this is a serious role play server if you heard them right now would you go out and investigate or call the cops.

Besides that I am somewhat sympathetic to your cause it's a wrong place at a wrong time incident if there wasn't a war going on the police would of dealt with your reckless disregard of safe flying and brought you down one way or another for questioning.

I will if the admins approve comp you the loss of your helicopter, on the understanding you realise the situation you were in and hovering over a police station is never a wise course of action.

Shoot me a post on here so I know you have read this then grab me in game or in teamspeak to sort out the money.

SI Maratek

Investigation mode disabled!

 

[Foobar]

Still maratek, If this was next to kavala hq it wasnt in green zone and they cannot just assume the heli was used for illegal activity.

 

[JT77]

Thanks for your response officer Maratek. Yes I understand the situation and i admit his guilt in the incident. I was at the wrong time on the wrong place, I saw a lot of flashing oncoming cars to the scene, I saw a police helicopter and I wanted to see what was happening. Many times I have tried to help the police in the apprehension of offenders and many times I helped a perpetrator was arrested. Today too. That's who I am, be able to better English, I would go to the police here. I see a great lack of a police helicopter in the game, and I'm in the air all the time. So we try to help. I'm not shooting a police officer decent enterprising citizen Altis. If in this police action offender began to run, I would watch him and guided you to him. I'm just at the police although police never asked me for help. Many times I repaired the damaged car police many times I guided the party to a crime scene or a stolen car. I am in no rebel group and do not give information to anyone. Sometimes, for me to add my girlfriend's son with friends and you've converted to legal Job
I am prepared to accept responsibility for it that I was at the border of the Green Zone, I was too low and police warning, I did not react in time. Scrap heli is very strict punishment for me. Give me a ticket, send me to jail, I will accept it. I am aware of my guilt, but I just punishment.
You decide and let me know. But I can not promise that I will not watch police work for and help them
I'll will try to immediately listen to the warnings police.

Have a nice day to Kavala

Heli Assistance Service

Jeytee1977cz

 

[TinyBigJacko]

Admin decision - penalty stands.

Reason: Overflying a police HQ is as illegal (if not more so) than overflying the green zone. Plus, low-altitude limits were broken too, which is an offense.

Presumably the pilot was dead at the time of the helicopter's impact with the ground, so it would have been impossible to interview the pilot beyond the grave and determine his innocence in terms of his involvement with the firefight/attack on HQ, so it is a *reasonable* assumption that his close, unannounced proximity to the attack, plus his breaching of at least two Altis laws (as above) signalled his involvement with the attack.

Thus, as a 'decision on the ground' the crushing of the chopper is fair enough on its own, even if the attack had been happening miles from any green zone or HQ; but it is compounded in its relevance by the fact that the aforementioned laws were broken (location, altitude).

Ordinarily, yes, it's possible that some officers would take a more lenient approach if it had JUST been a case of location & altitude, and may not have scrapped the vehicle, but given the situation, I don't feel there has been any miscarriage of justice here. The chopper *could* have been impounded just for its lawbreaking, unrelated to any attack.

I would advise the OP that in future, if you wish to participate in a police action, and be 'eye in the sky', you really need to have communicated this with the police (perhaps via Cellphone, or coming into TS and establishing via an OOC conversation, a voice link for future in-game use), and gained approval and awareness of your non-hostile status BEFORE getting into the thick of it. Think 'real life'... would you REALLY have endangered your life, and possibly that of officers and other innocent civilians on the ground, by hovering over what was a fully blown warzone? I think not... lesson hopefully learned, even if in a rather expensive way.

 

[JT77]

But I did not fly through the police headquarters. My fault is that I was under the 100m and I did not get timely response to the police warning. For this guilt is scrap? There is in your Altis Life presumption of guilt? I accept that I was shot down but I can not accept scrap. I want you only adequate punishment. Scrap is not adequate in this case.
Next time I will decide more cautious in these situations and will inform the police that I am not a spy. Hopefully I'll be accepted, if not rather fly away.
It's a lesson for me but with the decisions can not agree.
Thank you.

 

[Heatproofsean]

Sorry but it should be common sense; if you enter a hostile environment (especially <100m in aircraft), you risk injury and/or death. 

And if they believe you are part of the enemy attack, crushing vehicles is standard procedure.

Again, if you don't want to risk such things, don't get involved. 

Now the admins have issued their decision, discussion is over sorry. Admin's word is final. I hope you learn from this, and don't take it personally. Altis a lovely place, and road trips are a great way to see the island! 

 

[JT77]

Hello judical tribunal.



 




Unfortunately, there can not talk about an independent court, since there are only admin (highest instance) and the police. The Altis Life lacks an independent court and jury. Unfortunately there is no legal system and some elements are already or can not be regarded as RP. Admin TinyBig Jacko decided and the decision is made, the injured party has objections (not important). Justice therefore there can never work. I am ready to carry full responsibility for my mistake but again, the punishment is too strict and does not reflect crime. Not here to pay a lawyer because there are none and does not count with that there would ever have been. It seems like a hopeless situation, and I feel in this battle alone. Alone against the system (as it is reality-like).
I am glad for Maratek senior police officers found a discrepancy in this situation and it's not so clear how other people think. I'm interested in the Supreme Wilco.


So what happened:

1) Flight under 100 meters  (no penalty)

2) I did not respond in time to the warning police.

it's my fault but it was not taken into account that as a possible variant of a mitigating circumstance when I was shot down my heli is already moving backwards.
The punishment I was shot down and losses equipped. Ok ok, I accept

3) I moved to an area where the shooting occurred confusing situation. But who of you is not never been curious to look at the dangerous actions? Natural human reaction.




Furthermore, nowhere is it written of the movement in such areas is prohibited, unless it strictly not prohibit police. Do you agree?
Punishment is not what..
So I still do not understand what I was scrapped Hummingbird. Under suspicion of espionage? This will seriously suffices as an accusation?

Presumption of guilt, gentlemens.

We have no indication that I would be a spy. You do not accept my explanation.

Helicopters TV stations are also suspected of spying someone's?
Yes, these helicopters have identifier. Altis Life but these identifier impossible. If so, I want them. I want to make me the next time the police managed to identify.

I urge punishment for what I've done, not what you think. Hypothesis will perhaps not enough to condemn, do you?

Thank you...
 





 

 

[TinyBigJacko]

I've given my reasons above. Nothing you say in your followup posts have changed a thing.

1 - there is a penalty for low-flying. It *CAN* in some circumstances be scrapping.

2 - you admit you broke the law in your handling of the police warning

3 - you admit you entered a prohibited zone (which is written - clearly you're not looking hard enough).

Any - and I mean ANY ONE - of these items alone, could warrant the destruction of the chopper under Altis Law.

You did all three.

Time to get a very big straw...

BTW. His lordship Wilco is away on holiday. In his absence, I am the ultimate judge, by his order. This week, I *am* Wilco, to all intents and purposes. There is no higher court or judge, currently. Wilco will soon be back; your chopper will still be a cube. If you grief him about it, you risk incurring his wrath, which - trust me - is far, far worse than mine. By challenging me, you're basically challenging his judgement in me. So choose wisely. You misunderstand the legal system in Altis, evidently. There are no lawyers here; only the law, and the cops who enforce it. Thus is it written.

 

[JT77]

ADD 3 is inaccurate with you, I was not in a prohibited zone.

..But i do not deny his guilt. Low flight with slow reaction to the police warning.
Ok, it's your server your rules. I have no chance against your system.
If i do want to play, i must accept your system. Unfortunately for me you are too strict, even though I Altis voluntarily helped the police several times and thanks me arrested several people in the confusing terrain. There are no extenuating circumstances for me.
I would prefer if you were more strictly against the trolls and the like.
Reaction Wilco me but still interesting even though I do not expect I'll be inclined.
TinyBigJacko does not question your abilities, you have done great and the main functional server. My problem but you threw out than to have acknowledged that the situation is controversial and is not straightforward to my disadvantage. It just became something that is not described how to act or annoyed and zealous policeman used the method markedly harder than he had to and scrapped my heli.

I already have a new heli ( now Hellcat ) who least a little bit disappointed relieves me from this situation ...
Bitter sensation in the mouth but to stay...



 



Ok, have a nice day
 
 

 

[Harry Clean/Dirty]

Can we cry some more over a humming bird pls, i mean jesus christ ppl. . . . . . you were doing something stupid and got screwed, next time dont hover over a gunfight/warzone and u wont have a problem 

We have all had our shit scrapped before . . . . get used to it and move on, if u had spent half as much time trying to get your money back ingame as u have crying on the forums about it im sure u would alrdy have 1 or 2x the money back let alone your fucking hummingbird  

 

[TinyBigJacko]

Sigh. This is getting a *little* tedious, but you've made a couple of accusations that I cannot let pass without my responding.

Ref item 3 - you've admitted that you were overlying an area above, or immediately adjacent to a police HQ. That's prohibited. Always has been on this server, as has overflying the prison and the treasury, and all cities. For fairly obvious reasons, I would've thought. Only difference made in the months that I have been on this server is that overflying the green-zone continuously is now BANNABLE, if done to excess and continued after a warning. But you didn't do that, so it's irrelevant - I merely make the point that the rules on prohibited areas have not at any time made it 'legal' to overfly a cop base.

Furthermore, once a cop warns you to fly away, effectively the area that you continue to fly in, is now prohibited - by the action of the cop warning you. If the cop believes there is a danger to innocent civilians or property, he can 'prohibit' you from overflying your mum's house, a field full of cars and rabbits, or the airport itself, even - if the circumstances dictate so. If you continue to fly in this 'now-prohibited' area, you're committing a crime; if the officer catches you and the heli, and you fail his questioning, or are deliberately uncommunicative (or dead) the officer HAS THE RIGHT to crush the vehicle that was used in this criminal activity - though not ALL officers will do so. In this case, the officer did, because of extenuating circumstances - the ongoing WAR that was taking place on the ground. Only a complete fool, or a rebel spotter, would have continued to fly criminally in such a way or location, once warned, is the logic. You were unavailable for questioning (dead) and the deduction based on the evidence available was that you, on balance, were probably supporting the rebels. Exit one vehicle. There is NO controversy here. Your in-game character died in the middle of an illegal act which itself was connected (either by default or design) with a rebel attack on police HQ. Your burned body may not have revealed the ashes of any rebel membership card, but who is to know? Only your spirit voice from beyond the grave whispers to us that you might somehow have been 'less guilty' than was evident at the time of your unfortunate death.

It's all very well talking to us from beyond the grave, and claiming your innocence, but frankly it is now too late. This isn't an RDM incident where I would give you comps without hesitation. The RP was established, you died as a result of your own (character's) stupid, criminal activity and lost your (his) chopper. Hate to say it, but 'deal with it'. Move along; nothing to see here.

Furthermore, I resent your accusation that I am somehow more strict with you, than I am the trolls and RDMers. I waste EXCESSIVE amounts of my day - and precious development time - dealing with RDMers and trolls, and banning them ON SIGHT wherever possible. I have extended the admin team to assist with this during Wilco's absence, and these poor guys' feet are barely touching the ground; they are experiencing the full terror of what it's like to be admin in Kavala on a Saturday night, when it is a troll-fest extraordinaire! They're doing a FANTASTIC job, and I really take umbrage over your claim that we are somehow less strict with these idiots than with you.

Although we have rejected your compensation claim, we have devoted CONSIDERABLE amounts of time to hearing your case. If you were a troll or RDMer, you would not even be given that consideration. The unban request subforum is slowly filling up with requests that I currently do not have the time to even begin processing - they will wait for Wilco's return, when hopefully he and I can share the task between us again, and I can take a bit of a breather. The trolls and RDMers are banned PERMANENTLY on sight (where possible and supported by evidence which often takes time to gather), and they are the very LAST people in the queue for admin time, in terms of hearing their cases. And that is how it should be. We deliberately ignore their cage-rattling requests in Teamspeak, via forum PM, and via friends in-game, because the rules are that we deal with troll/RDM unbans ONLY via the forum. They whine and grief CONSTANTLY. It gets ignored. Comp requests, however, take a slightly higher priority. Donators take the highest priority on the forum. Admin issues in-game take a slightly higher rank, while physically keeping the servers operating and restarting correctly, is obviously the maximum importance.

So, please, no more whining about how badly off you think you are, in terms of admin attention or strictness... You didn't win, and we are being quite strict in terms of enforcing the cop decision, but you are NOTHING LIKE as badly treated as the trolls, trust me. We may not get ALL trolls, but you don't even see a fraction of them. We do. We get as many as we can, as quickly as we can. I've probably missed four or five each time I've had to reply to your posts on this thread, please consider...

 

[JT77]

Banana:
I have no problem to earn and defend here, so relax and talk to me fairly. You have permission to talk to people like that? Police officer.

TBJ:
And I'm tired of this conversation, I knew where I was at the time of the intervention, and it was far enough from the Green Zone and at the police station. I have no reason to lie.
You tired of it, so exit together,

Bye..

 

[Wilco]

Thanks for the report, Sorry for the inconvenience
 
400k has been refunded back to your in game bank account.