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Civ/Reb/Vip Hellcat

Wilco

The King
Legendary Donator
The hell cat is now on both servers, Just wanted to advise there are no custom skins unique to this server (perhaps we can bug killerabbit to make us some... so just to get the hellcat in asap I have gone for 2 public available ones from here - http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=24161 so full credits to Diesel5187 & sykoCrazy the authors of these cool skins :)

Screenshot:

In terms of roleplay... the blackmarket has been buying EX royal navy choppers that have been decommissioned.

1A74D79BF31F558C43FF74F5C311DBABFC8D282B


 
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Regardless of not being unique, those are awesome skins.

& if I may. HELL YES HELL CATS!

 
Civs have got hellcats because Wilco is off on holidays for a week, and I am left holding the baby in the meantime. :)

Please sit tight on all gripes and moans for a week, if there are any, and be sure to save them all up for Wilco's return. I will be in the corner crying by then, no doubt! :)

 
*holds Ed's hand *

Don't cry.. it's only a week, don't you worry! I'm here for you.. :)

 
Well they have got them already and why not ?

It is something I promised them a while back and I have only just got round to doing it.
They didn't have them before... the reason i would be against it, is because the hellcat is one of the most powerful tools we have as police when dealing with rebel activity. It helps us level the field. 

Since they usually have the advantage of numbers, firepower and surprise, the IR camera can help location rebels hiding at a distant sniping for example. 

Why would rebels need the hellcat's IR Camera? (which is the issue here, the aircraft itself is fine in rebel hands)

We, the police, already have a really big issue with helicopters:

They all fly over the green zone, they still try and land in it. If it's landed, they take off before we can get to them. Shooting the pilot even when landed is poor RP IMO. And I'm against that. 

If it's just hovering, we fire shots, and they circle around while laughing at us. Because we can't damage it effectively.

If they are not in the green zone, we still have wait 3min before we can open fire on it (EG Bank). And they can provide surveillance without being near the bank (or other AO's), which questions whether we can shoot them at all!

So they can tag all police units and movement, with extremely limited countermeasures from the police, without being near the AO (thus, how do we know they are involved?). Yes they have to communicate, but so do we. And we don't have the limited RoE, weaponry or other advantages rebels typically have. 

Please don't consider this moaning, as you asked why I thought they shouldn't have it. This is a constructive, objective, assessment on how implementation of the hellcat could affect the police, if rebels gain access to it, and the IR Camera.

 
They didn't have them before... the reason i would be against it, is because the hellcat is one of the most powerful tools we have as police when dealing with rebel activity. It helps us level the field. 

Since they usually have the advantage of numbers, firepower and surprise, the IR camera can help location rebels hiding at a distant sniping for example. 

Why would rebels need the hellcat's IR Camera? (which is the issue here, the aircraft itself is fine in rebel hands)

We, the police, already have a really big issue with helicopters:

They all fly over the green zone, they still try and land in it. If it's landed, they take off before we can get to them. Shooting the pilot even when landed is poor RP IMO. And I'm against that. 

If it's just hovering, we fire shots, and they circle around while laughing at us. Because we can't damage it effectively.

If they are not in the green zone, we still have wait 3min before we can open fire on it (EG Bank). And they can provide surveillance without being near the bank (or other AO's), which questions whether we can shoot them at all!

So they can tag all police units and movement, with extremely limited countermeasures from the police, without being near the AO (thus, how do we know they are involved?). Yes they have to communicate, but so do we. And we don't have the limited RoE, weaponry or other advantages rebels typically have. 

Please don't consider this moaning, as you asked why I thought they shouldn't have it. This is a constructive, objective, assessment on how implementation of the hellcat could affect the police, if rebels gain access to it, and the IR Camera.
Before posting did you contact the Air police team or CSI Dave ?

They have already been consulted on this and have secret squirrel police information (If your not part of the air team then choppers are not your concern however they have a future way of combating them) :)

We are also one of the last community's to have hellcats... some bigger community's have attack choppers!, I promised this a while ago and I kept my word.

Civs have got hellcats because Wilco is off on holidays for a week, and I am left holding the baby in the meantime. :)

Please sit tight on all gripes and moans for a week, if there are any, and be sure to save them all up for Wilco's return. I will be in the corner crying by then, no doubt! :)
Why wait Why wait when you can get your word in now ;)

 
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They didn't have them before... the reason i would be against it, is because the hellcat is one of the most powerful tools we have as police when dealing with rebel activity. It helps us level the field. 

Since they usually have the advantage of numbers, firepower and surprise, the IR camera can help location rebels hiding at a distant sniping for example. 

Why would rebels need the hellcat's IR Camera? (which is the issue here, the aircraft itself is fine in rebel hands)

We, the police, already have a really big issue with helicopters:

They all fly over the green zone, they still try and land in it. If it's landed, they take off before we can get to them. Shooting the pilot even when landed is poor RP IMO. And I'm against that. 

If it's just hovering, we fire shots, and they circle around while laughing at us. Because we can't damage it effectively.

If they are not in the green zone, we still have wait 3min before we can open fire on it (EG Bank). And they can provide surveillance without being near the bank (or other AO's), which questions whether we can shoot them at all!

So they can tag all police units and movement, with extremely limited countermeasures from the police, without being near the AO (thus, how do we know they are involved?). Yes they have to communicate, but so do we. And we don't have the limited RoE, weaponry or other advantages rebels typically have. 

Please don't consider this moaning, as you asked why I thought they shouldn't have it. This is a constructive, objective, assessment on how implementation of the hellcat could affect the police, if rebels gain access to it, and the IR Camera.
The police can easily do all the things the rebels can, if enough thought goes into it, you can surprise the rebels. Known as an ambush btw. Police have an advantage of having a larger source for backup. We rely on alliances which are very hard to come by. 

We need the IR camera for the same reason you do, maybe we are planning to recon an area before we do drugs, or planning to enter a city to check who is there already. There are numerous reasons that it would help us, just now means that you might have to use more appropriate cover.

I understand that KOS'ing helicopters is not really RP in your eyes, but think of it as being that when we risk landing, the RP is engaged already. It is part of the RP to shoot on sight, as it is part of the Altis Law. Shooting the heli's on sight may not boost role play, but it sort of does as you are enforcing the laws. Not beautiful RP I know, but what are we going to do.

Regarding the armour factor that the heli's pose, it works both ways, when we see WA99 approaching we do not even bother firing, we wait in cover for them to land and give us a more, how do I put this, fleshy target that is easier on the firepower. If armoured helis are wanted out for the rebels, then they kinda need to be for the cops also.

Finally I would suggest that the rules of engagement are changed a little bit for cops, as I understand the numerous rules which prevent you from acting upon quick commonsense, rather protocol which makes it very difficult for you, and pretty easy for us. I am in favour of this being changed.

Also despite the fact we also have access to buy the helis, at 4 million for non donators, I will probably not be jumping on board without some serious grinding beforehand. Whether it is worth it or not I do not know. On the other hand I am sure cops will enjoy there being more expensive vehicles as it will give more satisfaction when they get to crush them.

Just my take on it, welcome to arguments against, as long as there are some forms of non-biased arguments agreeing with it, as people taking the obvious one side that benefits them only does not make me very happy. Can we keep it civil please people?

 
Before posting did you contact the Air police team or CSI Dave ?

They have already been consulted on this and have secret squirrel police information (If your not part of the air team then choppers are not your concern however they have a future way of combating them) :)
I am part of NPAS (National Police Air Service), and have a long history with using them. I was the old India-99 Pilot back when I was in Pro Active Team. I've not been briefed on the "secret squirrel" yet, as I believe it's still top secret even for us. But I wasn't able to do much yesterday, so I might of missed it.

But depending on this squirrel, we'll have to see how troublesome helicopters become.

The police can easily do all the things the rebels can, if enough thought goes into it, you can surprise the rebels. Known as an ambush btw. Police have an advantage of having a larger source for backup. We rely on alliances which are very hard to come by. 

We need the IR camera for the same reason you do, maybe we are planning to recon an area before we do drugs, or planning to enter a city to check who is there already. There are numerous reasons that it would help us, just now means that you might have to use more appropriate cover.

I understand that KOS'ing helicopters is not really RP in your eyes, but think of it as being that when we risk landing, the RP is engaged already. It is part of the RP to shoot on sight, as it is part of the Altis Law. Shooting the heli's on sight may not boost role play, but it sort of does as you are enforcing the laws. Not beautiful RP I know, but what are we going to do.

Regarding the armour factor that the heli's pose, it works both ways, when we see WA99 approaching we do not even bother firing, we wait in cover for them to land and give us a more, how do I put this, fleshy target that is easier on the firepower. If armoured helis are wanted out for the rebels, then they kinda need to be for the cops also.

Finally I would suggest that the rules of engagement are changed a little bit for cops, as I understand the numerous rules which prevent you from acting upon quick commonsense, rather protocol which makes it very difficult for you, and pretty easy for us. I am in favour of this being changed.

Also despite the fact we also have access to buy the helis, at 4 million for non donators, I will probably not be jumping on board without some serious grinding beforehand. Whether it is worth it or not I do not know. On the other hand I am sure cops will enjoy there being more expensive vehicles as it will give more satisfaction when they get to crush them.

Just my take on it, welcome to arguments against, as long as there are some forms of non-biased arguments agreeing with it, as people taking the obvious one side that benefits them only does not make me very happy. Can we keep it civil please people?
My argument is that rebels don't "Need" an IR Camera fixed on an aircraft. Sure you can scout with it, but you can also scout using traditional covert methods. Not ones that can't be countered. If police tried that, we'd get shot fairly rapidly. And even then, we only have 1 Hellcat for the whole force to use. Of which, you need to be a part of NPAS to fly. So about 7 hummingbirds, and 1 hellcat is max (if NPAS was full and all members were online and free) we can call out all together.

And your arguement that we have larger back up is limited, as we struggle to get a decent force out during the day, and during the evening, there's lots of activities going on. "back-up", outside of the dept, is a luxury that cannot be relied on.

When I get back from work, I'll go squirrel hunting. If something is in the works, I'll refrain from further comments until then :)

 
Oh and again, CURRENTLY, it's very hard to shoot down a chopper. So they're large investments, but they last. 

 
Love the rp element to adding these in :)  

Also agree with HDGamer, it hopefully wont be that common to see loads of these flying around because it aint cheap. I guess its also a good incentive for the cops to be successful in their operations and try to crush rebel hellcats at all costs to lessen the threat.

Maybe giving cops more opportunities to use hellcats would also be useful, seeing as we have access to them now.
 

 
Our strategy has changed from trying to fight rebels to fall back call it in and do what rpu are designed to do and have the equipment to handle, road pursuits:-D. We pass it to the tfu and secure the area at a position where we cant take shots, about 2km away. last time the rebels held a position we lost 8 guys and we didn't even see them. Our aim is to roleplay alive officers not suicidal ones. We have families you know.

Over the last 5 weeks we have asked her magistrates government for help as this British crown colony is in a state of war but we have had no word. Days of the UK sending help is gone it seems.

Perhaps the police could use this wonderful black market. Or could use weapons we find on rebels it makes sense.

 
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