Brad - RDM

[Fuel]

Name of the person you are reporting (in-game name): Brad
 
Time & Date this happened: 19:50 23/06/2015
 
Which Server did this happen on: Server 1
 
Description of what happened: 2 armed men was seen entering the Kavala castle I go to speak with them, I spoke with one asked him to put his hands on his head I restrain him he says he is here to help then I get shot by Brad no warning nothing.
 
What Rule Was Broken ?: [SIZE=medium]3B) RDM - Random Death Match Definition:[/SIZE]

 [SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban)[/SIZE]
 
Have you tried to resolve with the player before posting?: Yes, says he thought they had initiated RP
  
Please post video evidence/screenshots here
 
(This is almost a must! without this you have no solid evidence, If your report is about RDM then it must be a video leading upto the RDM and after)
 

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[Brad]

This is from my point of view:

We'd been on top of the castle for a couple of minutes before Fuel came up behind us and in that time we had already been asked to put our hands up and we had refused. All of a sudden I hear that one of us is being restrained from someone behind us so I turned around and shot him after I saw that he was running straight at me pointing his gun as I thought that he'd told me to put my hands up too. If it was the other way around and I told a police officer to put his hands up then I know for a fact you would've shot me and as a result of you not carrying around lethal bullets I would've died just like you did. 

I'd also like to point out that you used the scroll wheel to get around using the tilda key in order to identify players at a distance. And lastly I'm quite dissapointed that as a mentor of this community you didn't try to find out all of the details with me before you decided to report me, you gave me less than 2 minutes to respond to you which is hard to do when people are shooting at you and then when I did you didn't reply at all.

 

[Fuel]

at distance? I was 2 meters away and I was going to switch to tazer to taze him if he tried to run as he had his weapon on his back, I was the person that said to put you're hands up and no you hadnt been their long you was seen walking in and we has 2 other officers their, further up from you, Ciaran and Summers, their was no threat as you're friend said he was here to help us, I restrained him as their was supposed to be 2 people at that point you instantly shoot without any reason what so ever,

You even know what you did was wrong with "ok im sorry,, I thought we had initiated RP"

So you admitted to you're mistake, but sadly I hear sorry I though we had initiated every day from different people and I am starting to think its used to RDM police.

you had no reason to shoot what so ever, all was friendly and you just open fire.

[SIZE=medium]3B) RDM - Random Death Match Definition:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban)[/SIZE]

As I read that rule you broke 2 parts of it

[SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Giving enough time for them to comply with your order[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]you did neither.[/SIZE]

 

[Brad]

Yes you did say "put your hands up" but before you got there and said that, the other two officers had already said it to us and we had refused therefore initiating RP. You were a threat as you were pointing weapons at us and telling us to put our hands up, we don't want to lose our guns because as a rebel they cost a lot of money. Role play had already been initiated by the other cops telling us to put our hands up and us telling them that we weren't going to do that. I agree that it's a bad way to start an RP situation and reflecting on the situation we should've told you to un restrain Wes and put your hands up but due to the fact you were already running towards me with a gun out and the officers that were directly behind the rocks we were hiding on I thought that that would be a bad idea. I had two officers in front of me and one behind that I knew wanted to arrest me for my assault rifle and in the split second I made the decision to shoot you so as not to get restrained or shot by anyone else. Once again yes it wasn't the best RP and that's what I was apologizing for but RP was initiated by the other officers and so I don't believe its RDM.

As for the all way friendly part it obviously wasn't as you were pointing big guns at us and we were at your colleagues on the top of the castle, our intentions were to steal the guns from the officers as they had MK1s and we were using Wes to lure them out of their advantageous position on the top of the castle behind the walls and get them to put their hands up and drop their weapons.

 

[Fuel]

well seems like you have misscommunication with your friends seems like he was very compliant,,he put his hands up and said he was helping us doesnt seem like you refused at all, just trying to dig yourself out of a whole

 

[Brad]

His job was entirely to be compliant with the police on the castle and get them to come down, I'm not trying to dig myself out of a hole as I've already admitted I could've done more in the terms of RP. I don't believe it was RDM but we can just see what the admins say when they take a look at everything that was said.

 

[Fuel]

seems fine with me, lets the admins see, if requested I have the video that is longer if required where you inform the other officers that you are their to help them, not threat whatsoever apart from you shooting me,, so if people can just shoot at cops now for litterally no reason this willl change the server dramatically.

 

[Brad]

Well, lets be honest I didn't shoot you for no reason did I. We're there to try and rob your colleagues, you restrained one of us and pointed a weapon at me whilst walking towards me. But I can see why you may think that if the other officers didn't tell you that they had already told us to put our hands up so I understand that you were annoyed as I would be too. I think this could've all been sorted out in team speak rather than on the forums but as it's already up here and we've had a discussion I hope the admins can see it from both points of view.

 

[Fuel]

yes I have the video and the other officers was under the impression you was their to help us, my Ciaran says it over comms, no reason to shoot at all, so no not our lack of comms, you even admitted you thought it had been initiated but sadly no hostile RP had been initiated you just randomly shot

 

[Brad]

Wes told them that so they wouldn't shoot us whilst we got into position to rob them but they still told him to put his hands up and he declined so we were under the impression that they would try and arrest him which you did and then I shot you. Once again yes I agree that I could've done more to RP with you but under the conditions if I had moved to restrain you then the officer just behind the rock I was hiding behind would've of easily killed me or shot me with a rubber bullet. I didn't randomly shoot there was just reason for me to do it but it wasn't good RP.

 

[The Shadow]

at distance? I was 2 meters away and I was going to switch to tazer to taze him if he tried to run as he had his weapon on his back, I was the person that said to put you're hands up and no you hadnt been their long you was seen walking in and we has 2 other officers their, further up from you, Ciaran and Summers, their was no threat as you're friend said he was here to help us, I restrained him as their was supposed to be 2 people at that point you instantly shoot without any reason what so ever,

You even know what you did was wrong with "ok im sorry,, I thought we had initiated RP"

So you admitted to you're mistake, but sadly I hear sorry I though we had initiated every day from different people and I am starting to think its used to RDM police.

you had no reason to shoot what so ever, all was friendly and you just open fire.

[SIZE=medium]3B) RDM - Random Death Match Definition:[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play (eg. Giving enough time for them to comply with your order) is considered RDM. (Punishment is a ban)[/SIZE]

As I read that rule you broke 2 parts of it

[SIZE=medium]Shooting at someone without engaging in any form of quality role play[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]Giving enough time for them to comply with your order[/SIZE]

[SIZE=medium]you did neither.[/SIZE]

You engaged in RP when you restrained TI Wesmantooth, according to @Steph ♥ and @SI Bob it is ok if you shoot to kill someone that has restrained a gang member or fellow officer. 

Sorry for commenting on this, but i am stating a fact from what i got told by an admin and a superintendent of your police force.

 

[Fuel]

their is a difference you are talking about a hostage situation which is already hostile due to them taking a hostage at gun point, but you feel the need to post on my thread because you have a wierd fascination with getting involved with everything I am envolved in,

their was no hostility in this, so are you saying because I have restrained someone it is an open field day for anyone to shoot without a reason, restrain to check a license...... officer dead,

Yes I get you're intentions was to rob the police officers,, but you made no hostility known, the other officers asked you to put you're hands up which they was told you are here to help, which is clearly heard on the longer video which I will upload if required, so no it was not a refusal it was you stating you was here to help the police, I stated to Wes put you're hands up buddy then he put his hands up, and said he was here to help,, I restrained him so I could talk to the other guy without getting shot in the back, then I just get instantly shot,

no threat was their to either you or us as officers you just heard handcuffs and instantly shot, their was litterally no need for it at all.

but if this is what we want to do, shoot officers the moment the handcuffs are placed on without any warning at all, so be it

we will rethink the way we arrest people.

 

[Brad]

The hostility was when one of the officers said that if Wes didn't put his hands up then he'd be shot: http://i.imgur.com/DYCRbdo.png

I didn't know your intentions either as you didn't know ours and I assumed as we were threatened with being shot that you were going to restrain him because he didn't put his hands up in the first place. There was no way for me to know what your intentions were and from the information I already had it was a safe assumption you were hostile. Onto the fact that Shadow posted above it's still is rather relevant and I don't think its fair to say he has a weird fascination with posting on things involving you, he's just stating a fact and trying to stop me from getting dragged through the dirt for something that has been done many many times before by rebels and the police.

I've even tried to talk to you off of the forums too (http://i.imgur.com/vGx6wHj.png) and as a mentor I would've expected you to at least respond to my messages but you haven't so I just feel like you don't want to even see it from my point of view at all and instead just want me banned for RDM even when a compliance and threat was given out by the police officers on top of the castle and you know that as you've said you have the video of it.

 

[Steph]

Denied - 24.06.15

I feel that I have to explain my decision in detail because there is a lot of confusion between people of how this can be dealt with.

The reason why I denied the Report is indeed because of the fact that if you Taze/Handcuff a Player RP is engaged.
You are taking away the freedom of a Player by putting restrains on him and also you physically harm him with tazing.

(Those 2 reasons are also in the german law - not sure about that in other countries but it does make sense doesn't it?)

So basically a person is being harmed and the friends of them can use this "harm" to take action.

(I chose the word FRIEND not GANGMEMBER I explain this later on)

Now this "action" is perfectly up to the people. If they shoot you or talk to you first is optional. You already took action on their friend there is no need to talk this out.

(Ofc RP is ALWAYS prefered because this is a RP Server and if people NEVER RP ofc they get a ban but sometimes they have the right to shoot)

It's very important tho to seperate certain scenarios:

1. You are with a group of friends. FRIENDS does not equal only Gangmembers. You are running around for a while doing your own business or whatever: Perfectly fine to shoot in that situation

2. You are with Gang Members. All of you get restrained. You call backup without RPing it. The backup shoots the Police without warning: Nope. Result will be a Ban.

3. You are alone. You call other friends without RPing it. They shoot Police without RP: Nope. Ban.

4. You are with friends/alone. You get restrained. You RP calling Back Up. The Cops can clearly hear you talking on your phone (Obviously BEFORE they removed it) and they come and attack the Police: Fine.

5. You are with friends/alone. Restrained or being shut upon. Random Hobo or Civ wants to play the Hero: Nope. Ban. 
(I also like to add here that IF this happens and someone RDMS the Police PLEASE be so kind and stay where you are. RP wise you are still in restraints)

I hope this is some clarification for some people. For me it's something that you can easily figure out if you take the time to think about what RP is or what's not.

Those are just examples from my side. How I deal with it. This is not a guidline or anything or allows you to go and kill every cop you see. As I said this still is a RP Server and we want to see some RP. (Obviously duuuh)

So I advice everyone not to go: Yeah but Steph said I can shoot Cops. Nope. Thats not what Steph said. And this post will not be for your benefit IF you do so. Cops need love and RP too  

And a report always always always is based on the evidence given.