Put basic guns back in Ammunation

[William Antrim]

I know this is a divisive issue but i am raising the point to weigh up the pros and cons of putting a basic pistol back into purchase at Ammu-nation. I realise many will vote this down without really discussing things but I implore all members of the community to come together to discuss the pro's and con's of this suggestion. 

In order to bring new players to the server the grind needs to be reduced. Its an RP server, not an MMO. One of the things people want to have is a gun. A lot of "RP" involves people robbing others at gun point. If people dont have a gun (and melee is broken) then the VALUE YOUR LIFE rule becomes a huge issue. New people are literally ripe for the picking vs established heads. I understand not wanting to have masses of guns on the server but the impact is not having masses of people instead. When people see that the only way to get a gun is pay through the nose for it it puts them off. 

When they finally do have a gun and then lose it to an inventory bug, this also puts them off. Thats hours grinding gone down the pan. There are 100s of other servers out there that offer much easier access to weapons that they can go to. We are battling against some very serious competition in the "serious roleplay" category. Its a serious grind at the moment. 

There are two things I would like to see help alleviate this issue. 

One - put a very basic pistol back into ammu-nation. Nothing like the deagles and other hand cannons of the past but maybe a SNS pistol. Something that a new player can pick up and use to defend themselves against a would-be mugger if they get the RP right. There is no issue then from the PD as they already have far greater firepower and other advantages to take control of a situation with but at least your average person stands a chance now. You could even lower the damage on it if that was required. Just something that would give people a fighting chance because no baseball bat in the world is going to stand up to a gunfight. 

Two - Make this weapon affordable to the new person. £35k was a decent price previously for a weapon like this. It could easily stay at that. The stores are already hidden from the map. Putting too many obstacles into peoples way to get established on the server will just have a long term detriment on the population. Once people have a gun, a car, a job and maybe a house even if they are planning on staying long term theyre pretty much "set up" on the server and they feel like they are part of it. After that any money they earn can be spent on fun stuff like the casino or meeting new people, buying silly masks, losing it all on the slots and all sorts of other stuff. It should not be a treadmill and it is currently. 

I timed myself last night, it took me almost 2 hours to get a new gun from scratch and that was with knowing all locations and crafting it myself. On a normal evening (not in the covid-19 apocalypse) thats my entire evenings gaming. The last thing I want to do on an RP server is grind because i lost a gun due to the fact that the platform I play on is buggy at times. 

I ask everyone who votes on the suggestion to please take a few minutes to consider the pro's and con's of this and give your reasons why. I am perfectly fine with being in the minority but please think of the long term health of the server, not just the ability to make a fast buck selling a few vintage pistols. 

 

[Santo]

Guns should be hard to get, easy to get guns =  more idiots running around not valuing their lives and shooting anything that moves. so -1 from me

 

[MrLongSlong]

I think a lot of the issues you speak of can be fixed by better gun distribution, there are guns there are likely quiet a few but there dosnt seem to be any real contenders to sell guns to petty criminals .

i feel factions like the lost should have more “gun slingers” and not just be filled with a bunch of people that appear to be the same rank and basically the same personality , they should have people at the very bottom of there organisation going out commiting large crime to earn a name for themselves etc and move up the faction via work rather then playtime. 
 

in saying that other groups could obsorb the role but it would take a lot of effort to get to the point where the lost is at currently.

 

[Simen]

I think a lot of the issues you speak of can be fixed by better gun distribution, there are guns there are likely quiet a few but there dosnt seem to be any real contenders to sell guns to petty criminals .

i feel factions like the lost should have more “gun slingers” and not just be filled with a bunch of people that appear to be the same rank and basically the same personality , they should have people at the very bottom of there organisation going out commiting large crime to earn a name for themselves etc and move up the faction via work rather then playtime. 
 

in saying that other groups could obsorb the role but it would take a lot of effort to get to the point where the lost is at currently.

Go to legion, stay there for 30minutes and roleplay with people. Someone will offer a gun for sale. Sure, it might not be for 35k as ammunation did, but its not too far off(if you find the right guy that is).

The way you explained us in he Lost, makes me confident youve had little to no interaction with anyone of us in the lost. Last time I saw you on the server was probably over two or three weeks ago.
Thats all im gonna say with regards to the Lost. Anything else you can find out by speaking to us ingame and earning our trust. Lets not sidetrack this suggestion anymore and focus on the actual suggestion please.

Regarding the actual suggestion, right now its a bit hard to get a gun, I get that, it sucks to be in the bottom of the food chain. Things will change soon ish, theres just some things that need to be sorted first (what that is, I wont say. Find that shit out within RP.)
Regarding opening up the chance to buy a pistol at Ammunation? No thanks. Yer point regarding police having superior firepower is way off. Sure Trojan/Firearms unit might have better weapons, but thats one out of three units. Frontline and Traffic dont deal with firearms, they dont carry em, how do they have superior firepower? It was so bad for the cops for a little while that no cops logged on until there was a Firearms cop logging on first, because everyone Tom, Dick n Harry was armed and went after cops.

 

[Charles Vane]

Im confused as too why you put up previous suggestions stating that we needed more ways too sell materials and such player too player to increase job possibilities and interactions between players but then would also suggest that someone could do 1 meth run and go buy a gun from a NPC?  

You say that it took you 2 hours too grind to make a gun which would have been your whole time gaming. That was your choice, you could have just gone too legion or phoned someone your probably already going too know who would be able too sell you a gun. This would have took maybe 15 minutes rather than the 2 hours too craft one but that was your choice. Its not actually as hard as you make it seem too get a gun. I have spoke too multiple new people that within around 4 hours play time they already have some cash and a gun behind them. 

Then like simen said, from a police point of view when everyone can just do one meth run and buy a gun from a shop nobody values any of it because they can just rinse and repeat that process if they lose it. It creates no player too player interaction in game and its also a much bigger loss if you dont have a dedicated "gun dealer" too just go and buy another one. The majority of police are unarmed and cannot under any circumstances deal with firearms. You say its an RP server but you should see the "RP" that the police are provided with when they try do something as simple as a traffic stop. Usually its a bullet too the head. This is getting better as guns are harder too get now for good reason. I would love too take you on a police patrol as a ridealong but its not something we can do yet. 

As for you @MrLongSlong im deeply offended that you could say me and simen have the same personality haha

 

[adaco]

I think a lot of the issues you speak of can be fixed by better gun distribution, there are guns there are likely quiet a few but there dosnt seem to be any real contenders to sell guns to petty criminals .

i feel factions like the lost should have more “gun slingers” and not just be filled with a bunch of people that appear to be the same rank and basically the same personality , they should have people at the very bottom of there organisation going out commiting large crime to earn a name for themselves etc and move up the faction via work rather then playtime. 
 

in saying that other groups could obsorb the role but it would take a lot of effort to get to the point where the lost is at currently.

Making a comment about something you know little about isn’t a good thing to do.

 

[William Antrim]

Im not gonna get into the specific good or bad points about any gang so please understand if i dont acknowledge anything about one particular section of the community. Im not here to finger point. I started the thread to gauge insight from others into their feelings about their satisfaction with the current ebb and flow of the server. For me personally I think its starting to become a big internet chat room with cars in it and the occasional apple being bought. 

Guns are the number one consumable commodity on the server. Cars do not get seized, houses do not get seized. The only thing you can buy which is expensive, can get taken away and that everyone wants is a gun. IRL i dont agree with guns, carrying them or using them because I wouldnt want Britain to end up like America. However, in game I can actually see a few valid points for some US NRA lobbyists and how they view the world. It is a conflicting opinion for sure but I think MORE guns is actually better for the server. As long as the RP around them is fun and handled well. 

I think there are a myriad of issues surrounding guns, I created the thread to promote discussion and see what peoples thoughts were. Police honestly need to get firearms trained across the board if thats the level of interaction theyre facing constantly. My experience with PD thus far has been that literally every copper on the server turns up to whatever incident happens now that isnt a routine traffic stop. I realise this is an inflammatory remark but it is the perception I am currently left with after seeing it with my own eyes. All I see cops do is stand around in Legion square with their guns out like its the Policeman's ball or go on mass to whatever call pops up. That's not RP, that's a gang in uniform. I know it is not every single copper and I have heard the stats that two thirds arent firearms trained and yada yada but when I see these things first hand it is difficult to have my opinion changed. Sorry but when cops have laser pointers on their guns (and assault rifles versus vintage pistols) and criminals dont you cant say cops arent OP. . Just point a tazer at someone and you can see the dot on it. If criminals had limitless access to shotguns and uzis id concur the point but they dont currently. 

If every routine traffic stop is ending with a pistol to the head then there is a report function OOC to curb that. People can have the "shit rp" stick slapped across their wrists and that would soon stop those issues. Nothing like a good 24hr ban to stop an asshat. The cops can RP that it is paperwork if they have to, just like IRL. 

I think that for the serious RPers there IS more room for more satisfying and better gun play. 

To give an example - I used to be PD on another server. It had much stricter rules than this one but one of the things I thought that they did right was robberies. Both sides (cops and criminals) were ONLY allowed to bring up to 4 people per robbery. Any more and you got a one way conversation with an admin, no ifs, no buts. Everybody had guns. The cops werent nearly as OP as this server. Anyway, I digress. The vast majority of my interactions on that server in robberies ended without even a shot being fired. This was because everyone knew everyone else had a gun. The cops had Mk2 pistols and free flak jackets and the criminals had regular pistols. Everyone knew that if the shooting began the cops would win the majority of the time. So it led to more RP from the crims, all kinds of schemes to get out of going to prison. It was great. I used to turn up to robberies unarmed in the majority of my PD time. I talked people out of stupid things and it was great. If the shooting did start, which it could at any moment because there were strict rules of engagement - basically if you were at a robbery you didnt need to initiate as a criminal, you could just shoot - it made for a MUCH more tense and VERY ENJOYABLE session. 

If the reason why the gun policy on the server has been changed was due to the PD moaning then honestly, I think thats a crying shame. Perhaps more PD need to be fire arms trained or more could use OOC better to stamp out the asshats? I worry that the server will devolve into the chat room i mentioned earlier. I understand Altis life is a lot more freely fulfilling in regards to its gunplay and so i am going to download it and check it out. I think there is a lot of room to have good gunplay and good rp with it. I think the supply of guns to the server currently with the bugs that are inherent with inventory issues and stuff disappearing confounds the issue and i think the lack of guns will honestly ultimately be detrimental to the robbery scene when that takes off. This has a knock on effect on ALL rp as the NCA will be twiddling their thumbs and police will just get bored because everyone will be doing meth/food delivery runs unarmed just to grind cash. If there are no shootouts whatsoever even the PD is going to get bored eventually. 

I began the thread looking to solutioneer a problem and I think I have possibly gone way off the original topic, it was a single proposal to push the server gun numbers back to where they were in the days of the black market dealer. It shouldnt go back to being that easy I think everyone agrees on that but if there is another way to push the balance back towards some middle ground I would prefer it to the current situation. If that means altering some element of the manufacturing process instead (halving the material requirements for example) or another solution someone else can think of then I would be all for that. 

I knew it would be divisive and I knew it would get voted down. Im completely ok with that. I still think the conversation needs to be had because I want to see the server flourish and prosper and i think its a bit too severe a pendulum swing in the direction of no guns at the moment. At the end of the day its a game and its meant to be fun. The grind isnt fun. To come back to you specifically Charles on your point about my choice - yes thats what i meant about the opportunity cost - the issue is that when there are guns on the server and I am alone more often than not I will choose to have a pistol to hand. Or at least in my vehicle. Due to various bugs etc these disappear. I admit fully this would be less of an issue if the bugs werent there. I own an Uzi for example, I worked long and hard to get it but I dont take it out of my home because its a prized possession rather than an RP tool. Again due to fivem bugs. This isnt the only reason but it is part of the motivation for beginning the thread. 

I would like to see a world honestly where people can buy a shitty gun from Ammunation but then they can go out into the world and RP like bosses to find and gain access to pump shotguns, uzis, deagles and a myriad of other weapons all across the city, even all across the world. That for me would be fun. The abundance is the fun part, because we would be able to replace losses in a heartbeat and it would balance the server so that everyone was equally well armed and thus would HAVE to RP better, as is my experience in the past. Right now people assume others aren't armed and so can force them into a situation. If the other person had the likelihood of having a shotgun under their jacket you might think twice about trying to roll up on them with your shitty little vintage pistol! (I refer you back to my comment about NRA lobbyists wanting to arm all Americans) I realise you dont all share my view but that's the beauty of an opinion, none of us is wrong and none of us is right. It is our perception. I want this server to be a crime simulation. I want to be a cop in that world, and a lawyer too and a criminal with my 3 players. I want to immerse myself fully in that world with a community i can trust to RP with on a fully integrated level. I want this server to have 100s of people queuing up each night to join it knowing that is the experience they will get when they finally get to log in. I've seen tonnes of servers that seem to offer those sorts of experiences but i chose this server to call a home because this community seems so much better than them. I like the fact that it is new and we are all experiencing it together with the old heads guiding the new ones, I just like to discuss this stuff when it pops in my head. 

I thank you all for offering your opinions as I like to hear different points of view, especially those dissimilar to my own. I think all of us want a better quality of RP at the end of the day and this is hopefully a good way to bring it about. 

thank you all for posting. 

 

[Stealthee]

Nope. Guns will remain out of server owned shops, and the aim to have basic weapons behind time commitment, or player/contact money driven. Larger weapons are in the game, just need to speak to the right people. As we see how manufacturing affects the climate of the server we will make changes. But we wont be returning to popping down to ammunations to buy a weapon.